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F12 Paint Bubbling

Discussion in 'FF/GTC4Lusso/F12/812S' started by acadmd, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Gullwing

    Gullwing Karting

    Aug 30, 2016
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    If your car suffers from the vent corrosion, inspect the rest of the car too. I had a detailer perform a thorough inspection and they found corrosion elsewhere (the doors). So this leads me to think there are bigger issues with the paint quality that just the mesh.
     
  2. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

    Jun 12, 2018
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    Heck that's no good. Do you have any pictures at all of the doors?? Do they not dip the body shell in anti-corrosion liquid, and isn't the body aluminium?
     
  3. speedbird1000

    speedbird1000 Rookie

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    Looks like the mounting plate is aluminium and bonded to the aluminium body but there are some positioning pins - note the grommets in the body so no metal contact. The grill presses lightly against the aluminium body once fitted. If so, then the grill material is the issue - if any metallic contact is occurring. Hence some cars corroding, some not. The corrosion will occur anywhere on the body which is in electrical contact with that rear panel, and the corrosion will typically occur at the site but also at other points which are the most stressed, IE curves such as on the doors. The extent of the corrosion will continue indefinitely until the less noble metal is gone....

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  4. speedbird1000

    speedbird1000 Rookie

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  5. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Rookie
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    Aluminum - Sub-structure
    Steel - Mesh grill
     
  6. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

    Jun 12, 2018
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    Mine has the latest mesh - version 3. Whether that makes any difference remains to be seen, but now concerned it may spread to other parts of the car!!!
     
  7. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    Well then, the steel mesh frame is literally bolted to the aluminum sub-structure. The only separation from the pictures is the paint on the two surfaces. Over time they seem like they would touch metal-to-metal which is indicated in one of the pictures where the nut, bolt and frame are corroded together. Same being true with the mesh pressing against the aluminum fender panel.

    Having multiple versions of the mesh may not have had any other purpose other than cost of assembly. I think the only reason for the sub-structure in the first place is to strengthen the area of the fender that needs to hold up the mesh frame and perhaps to avoid welding threaded studs to the inside of the body that could be seen through the paint finish. The later revisions have to be among the failed model years as so far in this thread MY 15, 16 and 17 have been documented. If you have an F12 with this issue and are going to contribute to this thread please indicate the model year. It will actually be helpful for owners and Ferrari to know the scope.

    Ferrari needs to test a fix and then release it as a known defect repair no charge. Those owners that supported Ferrari by purchasing their highest value production product and even extending all their high price warrantees deserves the reciprocal respect. It goes both ways in a relationship to secure trust IMO.
     
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  8. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

    Jun 12, 2018
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    Very well put and a no brainer really Ferrari! I have an F12 and don't have this issue yet! What I don't know is with the latest mesh did they separate the meshes and/or put a rubber washer so no contact. Not sure and think I will get my cousin who is a panelbeater and has already repaired 3 F12s to dismantle mine.
     
  9. SAFE4NOW

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    I may have missed it, but has anyone had to pay out of pocket for this repair?

    It appears to me that Ferrari IS offering repair , under warranty, for those clients needing repair. They are standing behind their product and more importantly the owners.

    Of the numerous ( 50+ ) F12 I have seen this year, I have had exactly 2 needing repair. Both , were covered no questions asked by FNA.

    I am not convinced that we know the actual cause yet.

    The F12 I shared photos of has no signs of metal to metal contact ( paint missing / scuffs / etc ) though it does show the result of whatever the root cause it.

    BUT there are minute signs of pitting underneath the paint " corrosion " area

    When I was with Mercedes, there were a few models that had a problem when it came to electrical current / ground , that caused a similar problem ,just in an area that was less noticeable.

    I am checking every F12 I come in contact with.

    S
     
  10. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran
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    what's your theory on the cause ? Any advice on how to access the underside of the vent mesh ? (through rear wheel well liner ?) Thanks.
     
  11. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

    Jun 12, 2018
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    in NZ an F12 was out of warranty and last week the customer has to pay 40% of the repair bill for the mesh issue.
     
  12. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

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    It's wrong fort he customer to pay anything as this was a ticking time-bomb from when the car was made, so it's irrelevant if it is out of warranty - it is only because it suits Ferrari.!
     
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  13. SAFE4NOW

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    I have only seen 2 in person, each appeared different.

    One had obvious contact between the two metal's / pieces ( mesh and outer shell of 1/4 panel)
    The other did not have any contact and each piece appeared to not have any contact or cross contamination

    So, I am looking out for the 3rd car and maybe new information. Photos don't really tell the whole story, IMO it takes eyes on to see the intricate details.

    I am asking around on my side, I will share what I find out good or bad.

    S
     
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  14. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

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    Thanks that would be good as I am keeping an eye on the 12 F12s in NZ. Were the 50 you have seen late models F12s??
     
  15. SAFE4NOW

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    Take a look at this photo.

    If you look closely and compare the mesh to the bubbled area, you will notice that there is absolutely no rubbing between the two surfaces. The black finish on the mesh is perfect, so I am not sure how adding a gasket or changing material is going to change the results ( paint bubbling ) it does not appear to be the cause on this example.

    p.s. Not my fingernail

    S
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  16. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

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    Yes really good observation. So it is either in the paint preparation or the bolts/nuts have corroded (with rain water that sits on the steel bolts and eats away at them) and are causing the problems?
     
  17. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran
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    I think the only thing we can say for sure is that water is involved
    and it is getting into the wrong places.
     
  18. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

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    Yes that is true but the poll says 50% are not affected - does that mean their cars have not seen rain or very very little.

    We could break the poll into Model year, where located, dry or wet climate or exposed to rain, paint colour to try and narrow the root cause down.
     
  19. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Rookie
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    I would agree with you that in your example there does not appear to be any corrosion directly between the steel mesh and the fender panel. If you look at your two photos below, there is definitely a lot of corrosion between the lower plate and the fender panel not involving the mesh:

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    With the metal mesh sandwiched between the two there should be corrosion somewhere on the mesh so it is puzzling. This seems to indicate that the lower plate is reacting with the fender panel. Certainly that area traps water right in that area. Either the lower plate is dissimilar in composition to the fender or it is just aluminum oxide (aluminum form of rust) from the sitting water and perhaps some chemical in the water.

    This seems a different phenomenon then the bottom two photos:

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    If the bolts are steel and the plate is aluminum then that's a problem. If the paint on the mesh wears and the mesh and the aluminum touch then that's a problem. If the bottom plate is some kind of alloy (F12 has 12 types of aluminum alloy) then that could be a problem. If water is constantly trapped in the stackup of the plate, mesh and fender that's a problem. I can see why just repainting will not work. The solution is squarely up to Ferrari to solve it and fix it that much is certain.
     
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  20. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran
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    Maybe the nuts are galvanized steel vs stainless ? I doubt the stud bolt and nut are aluminum.
     
  21. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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  22. BarryK

    BarryK Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2016
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    I was glancing over an F12 at a UK dealer this morning. Had the bubbling issue on one side. Didn't feel appropriate to take photos. Car delivered in late 2013 I guess. So problem not limited to later MYs.
     
  23. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran
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    That is an odd place for corrosion. What year is the FF ?
     
  24. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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  25. MatNZ

    MatNZ Karting

    Jun 12, 2018
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    Come on F12 owners please share your issues with the paintwork, especially paint bubbling on the doors and rear mesh areas. We have a F12 poll going as well. Thanks.
     
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