F12 Paint Bubbling

All - reviewed this thread with interest - as most (if not all) of you are F12 owners and have first hand experience in the model - can I ask you - what other areas of concern should one look at with this particular Ferrari model.

 

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Please let me know what your thought are as to the cause?


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The F12 body is aluminium. The grill steel. When an electrolyte is present (water), this metal pair will experience galvanic corrosion. Aluminium is a lot less "noble" than the steel mesh and with the water the car body will corrode if there is electrical contact between the two.

If we attach a less noble metal to the car body, it will corrode first before any corrosion occurs on the aluminium body. Magnesium will comfortably corrode ahead of steel and aluminium, Ie it can act as a "sacrificial" anode. My outboard engine had a small magnesium square bolted onto it where all can see, ie visually monitor its corrosion, as it will corrode first as it protects the engine body. Surprised the f12 body has no such magnesium "patch" given it is aluminium which is low down in the galvanic table. These mesh's are curved and stick up and had they been made of aluminium would have plastically deformed easily. Hence Ferrari maybe thought better use steel, but prep it properly, and it seems the issue is that preping varies.

 

Excellent analysis, thank you


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So, being bored, I decided to look further into galvanic corrosion in general and ultimately in relation to this bubbling. The bottom line is that the fix ain't so simple. The dissimilar metal must be separated by a dielectric material that has been tested to not conduct (absorb) ions across the dissimilar junction and also be neutral with both metals. I read several NASA tech briefs on the subject as well a papers describing the same condition in nuclear reactors (don't want those pipes to leak!). So, here's a few excerpts from various papers that I did not take the time to reference:

"For galvanic corrosion to occur, two dissimilar metals must be connected in the presence of an electrolyte. Salt water and acid solutions are excellent electrolytes. Ordinary fresh potable water is a weak electrolyte, and distilled water or condensate, extremely weak electrolytes. Steam will not act as an electrolyte at all. The weaker the electrolyte, the more limited the galvanic corrosion."

The above is basically true but then you get into the difference between distilled and deionized water which I won't go into. The basic understanding is they both have extremely low or no ions (originally) which are required to cause the corrosion. Ions are important because that's what's flowing versus electrons in a conductive metals example such as a circuit card. Another snippet:

"An electrolyte is a chemical compound that dissociates into ions and hence is capable of transporting electric charge - i.e. an electrolyte is an electric conductor; unlike metals the flow of charge is not a flow of electrons, but is a movement of ions."

And another:

"Pure water is not a good conductor of electricity. Ordinary distilled water in equilibrium with carbon dioxide of the air has a conductivity of about 10 x 10-6 W-1*m-1 (20 dS/m). Because the electrical current is transported by the ions in solution, the conductivity increases as the concentration of ions increases."

So, my grand solution is wash/rinse you car with distilled or deionized water, stay out of the rain or salty roads, and blow the car dry (particularly in the vent areas) until Ferrari finishes testing an insulator material that does not allow ion flow when in the presence of a carrier and an installation method that reliably separates the two metals. They could also replace the vents with closer "noble" materials as previously stated (better idea IMO). I have a 2013 tri-color and have always used distilled water for rinsing and no rain drives plus hibernation in the winter and thus far have no signs of this blight. Of course, chemically this is likely just slowing down the inevitable.

Hope this helps.

 

How about a micro bead of silicon between the grate and the body ? May not look the best close up... but may be enough to keep the dissimilar metals from reacting/corroding?


Perhaps I will keep water off the area like I have been and use griots waterless carewash to clean the area when necessary. I have a ‘17 with an August ‘16 build date.

 

I like the idea of a bead of silicone. Wonder if that would work.


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I took my car to the local dealership yesterday and filed a warranty repair claim. Service advisor stated this was the first reported claim. I think it is important to document with Ferrari that this has begun because of the possibility of further issues after the expiration of the new car warranty. Any comments will be appreciated. Btw, he expects a response from Ferrari within a week.


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Wouldn't it be easier to simply approach it like an outboard marine engine by bolting a piece of magnesium on the aluminium body/frame to serve as the sacrificing metal?

BTW, how do magnesium wheels survive the elements, with the metal being "less noble" than either aluminum or steel?

Speaking of rain...I thought rain is pretty much distilled water. Or maybe it's usually contaminated with electrolytes and ions as the drops pass through the atmosphere.

 

The water that your car experiences when driving in the rain is chemically nothing like distilled water. There's a lot of published material on the purification of water for use in biological and chemical experiments where just a small amount of contamination changes the reaction. The stuff falling from the sky has not been steam distilled or ion exchanged thorough various resins and is also highly contaminated with the road surface chemicals blowing up at you. This is in addition to what it picks up on the way down as you suggest.

DRYHOLE - if yours is the first claim and you are from the Texas and Florida regions (two huge Ferrari sales regions) then a lot more folks need to get reporting this for Ferrari to cover it and come up with a remedy that outlives the warrantee. A lot of cars are coming off bumper-bumper warrantee now and a re-paint is not a fix as the data clearly shows.

 

I wonder how easy it would be to remove the grates? Perhaps a gasket can be placed between the steel grate and Aluminium body eliminating contact between the two metals.

 

It’s in the rear fenders. I don’t think it’s easy to get to.


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Maybe remove the grids and plasti-dip or somehow coat them with a rubber like insulating material....re-install ?

 

Does anyone have a picture from a service manual of the grill attachments? How are they held on and how do you get to them (trunk, underside, fender well?). If anyone has a WSM please post a couple shots if you can.

 

I have the wsm. I’ll look into it as I’m curious as well. It’s probably through the fender liner.


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If it is like other recent Ferrari cars, ie FF, each mesh is attached at top and bottom with brackets that appear to be simply glued on with some kind of industrial strength adhesive. They cannot be bolted loose so pulling them off and gluing them back on seem to be the only choice. Another option is to get those double-sided 3M automotive trim tape to re-attach them. It's really tight in there, at least for the fender located meshes. I'll try to see if I can upload a photo I took of that FF location while I was working on reattaching the bracket.

Yes, plasti-kote will probably be an option but you will loose the beautiful luster of the metal. It looks like the meshes of FF are all coated so, while not as beautiful, might at least prevent that bubbling.

 

Apologies for the slow reply - haven't been here for a while. As others have pointed out, the issue appears to be an electrolytic reaction. One point that is clear is that any third-party "fix" we undertake will invalidate the warranty even though there are reports of the warranty not covering this issue as posted earlier. I have asked my dealer to provide an answer before end of April (when the car will on the road again), and plan to take it up with Ferrari directly if there is no clarity. It appears that the factory is at least aware of the issue.

It would be great if you keep us posted on your warranty claim.

 

I have requested a written response from Ferrari that I will post upon receipt.

Mark


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Ferrari authorized repair under warranty

I received a call from the service advisor today that a local body repair facility will begin the authorized warranty repairs this week. No information on the cause or how the issue will be repaired.

The authorization process was approximately 2+ weeks and I hearing about another 2 weeks to repair. Without my car for 4 weeks. I miss not be able to drive it. Does this lengthy process seem reasonable to others?


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Wow... Keep us posted.

 

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How did they access those? I wonder if it’s possible to unbolt them and use some silicone, let it dry and then put the grills back on


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It’s not good. Bodyshop person that has repaired challenge race cars, etc for 20+ years. He’s very knowledgeable and I trust him. Ferrari approved $670 for repair originally, now will wait for additional approval from Ferrari for additional labor and materials. Realistically it takes 3 weeks from start to green light to spend money.

Pretty frustrating process. This is my third F-12 and I love these cars but I am not accepting the warranty process. I traded the car last week on a 720S. Pm me if you have questions.


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I agree. The Ferrari warranty process is ridiculous. Congrats on the 720s. Hoping this doesn’t happen to my F12


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Interesting thread, and what seems another poor detail design feature by Ferrari. (Whilst I don't have a F12, I have a 348 with a number of water traps where simple limber holes would solve serious rust issues!)

In the maritime world this is a perpetual problem. We tend to use this product, or similar http://www.llewellyn-ryland.co.uk/downloads/duralac.pdf

But why not just fix the root cause and get rid of the dissimilar metals? I'd look into getting new grills made out of carbon fibre. You can buy open weave carbon mesh, so just make something out of that. Or have a sheet made and laser (might not be the right way) cut the mesh into it? Would a) get ride of the dissimilar metals and b) look cool!?