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F12 Paint Bubbling

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso/F12/812S' started by acadmd, Mar 15, 2017.

  1. Ferraribodyman

    Sep 27, 2018
    3
    Full Name:
    Ryan Moyer
    Yes the best that we can get it in there. Even with the interior out and those vents stripped from the quarter panels, it's very hard to get anything in between the outer skin of the quarter panel and the inner structure. Maybe an 1/8 of an inch of clearance. So treating the metal is the most important part. If u can treat the aluminum and then seam seal it after paint, no water should be able to get back in there.
     
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  3. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 22, 2002
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  4. mnogj

    mnogj Rookie

    Jun 17, 2005
    39
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Looking to purchase an F12. Did Ferrari end up with a revised mesh and cover the repairs after the 3 year warranty expiring on customer cars? If not, what was the cost of the repair?
    Also, is the consensus the metal mesh rubbing up against the aluminum body the root cause of the paint bubbling?
     
  5. x z8

    x z8 Formula Junior

    Nov 22, 2009
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    Jeffrey
    I recently took delivery of my manual 991.2 GT3. The car is alive. Best Porsche I have ever had or driven. Get it.
     
  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Aug 22, 2002
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    i dont know if they did but id be surprised if they did. by the time this became noticed and well known it was pretty late into f12 production from how i remember it.
     
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  8. ScottS

    ScottS Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 2, 2004
    1,359
    Winter Park
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    Scott S
    My understanding is a protector was developed so it is not metal on metal. I have a 2016 F12. No sign of this problem on purchase. Developed 10 months later on one side. Warranty covered it and they corrected both sides. Costly repair if not. About 12 k in warranty dollars, zero to me. The problem is if it’s not done by Ferrari they may not put the protector on? And the problem could recur.
     
  9. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    can i get more information on this product? i spoke with my local dealer he says there is no known fix just a repaint of the area.
     
  10. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    797
    huntingdon valley PA
    Gh21631 likes this.
  11. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    797
    huntingdon valley PA
    i bet if u take apart the screens and add some protection to these tabs...like dipping them in a coating or even installing plastic or rubber washers.
    you will help it so no oxidation.
     
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  13. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    797
    huntingdon valley PA
    colonels if u don’t have a issue.
    i would recommend if u are ok with taking apart rear on your own
    or take to ferrari and add those shims on the steel tabs and u will be fine.
    i have to this conclusion from a couple posts here and looking at the image i posted above.
    it’s a easy fix if the car hasn’t started the corrosion.
     
  14. jr-f12-15

    jr-f12-15 Rookie
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    Feb 25, 2020
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    John Refalo
  15. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    so from dealer they say it is covered under 3 year factory warranty there is no extra corrosion warranty that is longer. however my dealer is contacting them to cover it out of warranty because it is such a well known issue. the entire black mesh part is steel. i have not gotten an official answer from Ferrari NA if they will cover it yet, but when i do i will detail as much as possible what is done.
    talking to another person who recently had the fix done he said they repainted both 1/4 panels and roof and they also sprayed up under the wheel well where the steel mesh part contacts the aluminum body panel. he was unaware of any plastic spacers or barriers placed. i believe Ferrari thinks that those areas were not properly treated with paint in the manufacture of the car originally which has lead to the galvanic corrosion and that a thorough respray of the underside will correct the problem.
     
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  16. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    #238 colonels, Apr 2, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
    from a website i believe this is what is occurring with a very thin layer of paint/treatment on the underside of aluminum from the factory and the black mesh all steel part with black paint. Ferrari is choosing steps 4 and 6 as solution:

    Galvanic corrosion occurs when two materials (an anode (aluminum) and a cathode (steel)) come into contact with each other and an electrolyte. Electrolytes can be environmental factors such as humidity or rainwater. When these factors come into play, electron transfer will begin to occur. Depending on the level of resistance in an electrolyte, this transfer can happen much faster.

    There are a few steps you can take if you MUST use these materials together.

    1. Add an insulator between the two materials so they no longer connect. Without that connection, the transfer of electrons cannot occur. Well Nuts are a commonly used fastener to help separate materials that can suffer from galvanic corrosion.
    2. Use materials with the same potential. Metals with the same corrosion resistance are typically ok to use together.
    3. If you are in a situation where only one of the materials will come into contact with an electrolyte then transfer of electrons will not occur.
    4. If there is a coating on the cathode it can prevent the transfer through increased resistance.
    5. Consider your environment before installing. Choose materials that will work for your environment.
    6. Coat or paint your assembly (completely) so that the electrolyte cannot make contact with the materials
    7. Use neoprene EPDM or bonding washers as a barrier in between the metals.
     
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  17. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    Its a bit involved to pull apart otherwise a simple fix as you point out.
     
  18. 2006m5

    2006m5 Formula Junior

    Dec 19, 2008
    797
    huntingdon valley PA
  19. ScottS

    ScottS Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Mar 2, 2004
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    Scott S
    A friend who would rather not be identified had it repaired by a body shop for 8k as a local problem. It recurred. Ferrari then redid it under warranty with the extensive fix as outlined.

    Don’t ask.

    It’s a design flaw. Let us know about Ferrari out of warranty.

    I had it done under warranty. No issues.

    ScottS
     
  20. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    #242 colonels, Apr 14, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
    So page 5 has lots of good pics of how the black mesh attaches to a subpanel that is then adhered to the underside of the body panel by black adhesive goo. It would seem the mesh never touches the body panel this way but that's not true. The mesh edges are angled upward if you haven't noticed and on my car they actually protrude slightly above the body panel on the edges. Only on certain corners. The fit is so tight that the black mesh definitely rubs against the edges of the panel see pics attached.

    Once galvanic corrosion starts it doesn't have to be localized at the contact spot but mostly it does. So on my car the issue is too tight a fitment causing rubbing and cracking of paint. There will definitely need to be spacers added to prevent how close the mesh gets to the body panel.

    Also take notice how the black mesh doesn't look worn or the paint rubbed off. Electron transfer is still occurring however. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    144
    Tape alone will solve the problem from happening again. And some aluminium paste on the bolt thread to really make sure et voilá, fixed. Or just don't be cheap and have someone do a set out of aluminium mesh.
    Ferrari did the best they could, they are italians, they are doing a lot better than they should, f12 are cheap as chips right now, for what is a masterpiece of an engine on a tremendous gt chassis, just spend the money and be grateful it's not anything worse.
     
  22. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    i think if the black mesh wasn't raised to fit flush with the body panel it would solve the issue, but i suppose leaves and debris could get inside that quarter panel area so they raised it. using spacers to lower it might work but they would also have to seal up the gap created by the spacers with something otherwise debris would get back in lol.
     
  23. luigisayshello

    luigisayshello Karting

    Jul 9, 2014
    144
    Why not try a rubberized paint. Would serve as seal between the two metals and it would still fit properly.
     
    Gh21631 likes this.
  24. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
    3,250
    France
    A little bit off topic but the Maranello (550 and 575) had meshes for air intakes on the bonnet and on the left rear fender - I may not have had the cars long enough (or I was not paying enough attention) but I do not remember any issue, and never read about some either.
    I wonder how the problem did (apparently) not exist and then appeared with the F12.
     
  25. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    5,572
    East
    Basically the plastic washers keep the grill from rubbing on the underside of the body which would eventually wear off the coating on the grill which would then rub directly on the body.

    Surprisingly with the spacers the gap is not noticeable.
     
  26. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    the black mesh is attached to a sub-panel that is then glued to the body panel with black adhesive. the sub-panel has been said to be aluminium so there is no galvanic contact from the underside of the panel directly to the body. see images attached from this thread:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  27. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2011
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    colonels likes this.
  28. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    555
    the bottom U shape is where the mesh is raised can you take a pic of that from the opposite side to show how far up it comes?
     

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