F12 Berlinetta starting problem | FerrariChat

F12 Berlinetta starting problem

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by F12_CDR5, Sep 18, 2016.

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  1. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear Gurus,
    I own a 2013 F12 with 7k kms on the clock. Recently I've been having starting problems. When I start the car when cold, it cranks up wonderfully. However, after a bit of driving, say 20 mins or so, when I switch the engine off and then immediately restart the car, it has a lazy starting issue as if the battery is flat but the car starts up though. I then get the "electrical problem and contact dealer" message appearing. Also, either the radio or air conditioning does not work. I've since also realised that this problem almost always occurs when the engine is hot. If the car's left to cool down for say an hour or more, it starts up without a problem. I've taken her to the dealer who changed a new battery, starter motor and also cleaned up the ground terminals but the problem is still there😩
    I was wondering if anyone out there has experienced a similar problem and hopefully has a fix🙏🙏🙏
    Thank you in advance.
     
    cwall likes this.
  2. Garfield619

    Garfield619 Rookie

    Dec 10, 2011
    27
    Hong Kong
    I do haunted by the same problem for 2 years... Change a new battery give me 6 months and the problem start again.

    The dealer that me that this is not new... Lot of people who didn't drive the car enough have the same problem. Basically they said you need to at least drive the car once a few days for 45 mins continuously to let the battery re-charge... Other option is to connect the car to power when not driving.

    I have other Ferrari too... The F12 is the only one have this problem.
     
  3. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear Garfield,
    Many thanks for your reply. I must admit that the car has been sparingly used but I've got it hooked on to the battery charger whenever it's not in use. Furthermore, the battery indicator shows that the voltage is within acceptable limits. The best problem occurs when the engine is hot. It's really very infuriating.
     
  4. Red Sled

    Red Sled Formula Junior

    It is worth checking the starter relay - heat can cause expansion related issues which are very hard to track down. You could also have a connector in the starter circuit coming loose when hot - possibly in the fuse box. I have dealt with both of these issues in other F-cars. Just speculating.
     
  5. ehrst

    ehrst Karting

    Jun 20, 2011
    92
    Orange County, CA
    Full Name:
    sse
    I have had the exact same problem. Slow starts and then the radio or some other electrical system doesn't work but may work the next time the car is started. Voltage meter read normal but that really doesn't mean much because the real issue is current flow to the battery and voltage is a poor indirect measure for that.

    I had the battery changed even though the "readings" at the dealership indicated the battery did not need to be replaced and the problem disappeared. My dealer also covered the battery under warranty even though the factory refused to honor the warranty based on the readings at the dealership.

    My guess, and this is a guess, is that some of the batteries coming from Italy, or wherever, are suspect leading to voltage and current flow issues and causing these symptoms. I had the battery replaced a month ago and have had no trouble so we shall see.
     
  6. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,586
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    So you are saying that, for your problem, connecting to charger corrects the issue? I have not experienced this issue but always have on the charger between drives. Not sure why a cool down would help unless perhaps a starter motor issue.
     
  7. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 11, 2013
    10,860
  8. ehrst

    ehrst Karting

    Jun 20, 2011
    92
    Orange County, CA
    Full Name:
    sse
  9. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear All,

    Many thanks for your valuable input. After an extensive check on the dealer's forum, apparently they have identified the problem. The fix is supposed to be replacing the starter motor as well as the starter cable which is connected to the battery. They have ordered the parts and I'm due to send her in next week. I certainly will keep you all updated on developments.
     
  10. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear All,

    Well the parts consisting of new starter motor and starter cable arrived and have been fixed. I must say that it the problem's gone. I believe that the main issue was due to the extreme heat in Malaysia together with the heat generated from the engine. Anyways, I'm pleased to report that I don't have this problem anymore.
     
  11. rockitman

    rockitman F1 Veteran

    May 31, 2015
    5,982
    Upstate, NY
    Full Name:
    Christian
    Great news. Thanks for the update.
     
  12. ml321

    ml321 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2008
    254
    London/Munich
    Interesting that you got a new battery free of charge. i had to pay for mine .... Also the electrical gremlins persisted afterwards - although they even sold me a stronger battery (read more expensive one)

    I admitted defeat and live with some warning messages on a regular basis (no starter problems or similar though)
     
  13. AutobahnAndTrack

    AutobahnAndTrack Formula Junior

    Dec 31, 2014
    307
    Frankfurt, Germany
    Full Name:
    Stefan G
    ml, I had a failed ABS sensor in the rear that produced lots of random error messages. Battery was fine. Maybe check.
     
  14. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear All,

    The starting problem has returned I’m afraid. I’ve just changed the battery and have made it a point to keep car charged when not in use. I’ve also taken her out every 2 or 3 days. My latest debacle was when I took her out to Singapore from Kuala Lumpur which is 300 kms away. It was a really spirited drive of averaging 250 km/h. I spent the night and left early today. About 2 hours into the drive, I pullled up to refuel. It was then that I experienced the same problem. When starting the car there was a lag before the car started and then the electrical failure message came up and the usual radio not functioning. What was most surprising was that this time the same problem occurred for 4 or 5 times when I switched off the engine and commenced the starting process. Each time the same problem ie lag in starting like weak battery, failure message and radio not working. I’m sending her to the dealer next week but am curious to hear your esteemed comments.
    The car is a 2013 build and done 14,500 kms. You could say that it’s most sparingly used.
    The drive despite the above was simply awesome. I’m just in love with her.
    Rgds,
    Frustrated F12 owner.
     
  15. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,586
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    Quite curious behavior. If I'm counting correctly you've gone through two batteries, two starters and a starter cable in the last 7kms and 2.5 years. It appears your right back where you were in Sep 2016. You also state that where you are it is very hot and that is suspected to add to the issue.

    Since its at the dealer, they need to check every component in the start system. Additionally, look for corrosion on both the positive terminal from battery to starter and the negative terminals where there are grounding straps throughout the car including grounding straps between the engine and the aluminum chassis. Dissimilar metals cause corrosion and you could get a bunch of issues with that.

    Additionally, the dealer should check for parasitic current draw in the electrical system. You might have a multiple source problem including something as simple as they put in a bad battery. Sorry to hear about this recurring issue. Please let us know what the dealer checks for and if it is successful. Also, if its hot there then, if not already performed, have them check for the passenger side airbag recall. Its not related but replacement priority is driven by heat. Best.
     
  16. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear SS (same initials as me)
    Thanks so much for your reply. Temperatures in the day are between 35C to 38C. Yes it’s hot!

    I will keep you updated soonest. Thanks again for your invaluable comments. Will share with tech guy handling car.
     
    Solid State likes this.
  17. Alexfor8

    Alexfor8 Rookie

    Aug 14, 2018
    38
    Full Name:
    ALEXANDER FOREST
    I have this exact issue with my 2016. Starts fine cold but occasionally it is sluggish to start after refueling. Something is causing an incredible load or possibly a ground opening up when hot. It was bad enough one time to cause the windows to lower to the door open position.
     
  18. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 19, 2006
    16,110
    Full Name:
    Stickbones Swagglesmith
    I have had the same “hot restart” problem with my ‘16 F12. On third battery.
    Frustrating.
     
  19. SVCalifornia

    SVCalifornia Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 28, 2011
    2,447
    Silicon Valley
    Full Name:
    Keith
    Do you know **for certain** what battery you have and do you have the correct charger/maintainer for it?

    An incorrect pairing will cause premature failure.

    Loose cables and grounds can also cause these symptoms. So a careful inspection is necessary to rule these out.

    If a dealer or a third party has installed new devices or different devices into the car then it can be also a source of electrical problems.

    SV
     
  20. Gianfranco341

    Gianfranco341 Karting

    Sep 12, 2017
    248
    Full Name:
    Gianfranco
    I had the same problem with my F12 , 2014 . I had it always with Ferrari charger when I didn’t use it , good start at cold but when I was stopping to refuel or for a while it was starting but with the feeling it was not because cranking was very poor . I changed battery by my own , quite difficult but I saw the original battery is a normal acid battery placed in the engine room and quite difficult to achieve . The result was the battery was having a low level of acid due to high temp in the engine room and no possibility to check and refill . As you know a battery with acid low level is dangerous too because the acid is having a cooling function too. I changed with an AGM Varta battery and my problems are sorted .
     
  21. Alexfor8

    Alexfor8 Rookie

    Aug 14, 2018
    38
    Full Name:
    ALEXANDER FOREST
    Good to hear. I am going to try a Interstate MTX 49 H8 AGM battery when they are back in stock. Hopefully it is that simple.
     
  22. F12_CDR5

    F12_CDR5 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2016
    31
    Malaysia
    Full Name:
    S Siva
    Dear All,

    I've got the car back from the dealer who replace the starter wiring harness. I am told by the tech manager that this latest harness is much thicker. I guess Ferrari have worked on a fix because I've not had even a slight hint of the problem after this. In fact (as mad as I am) I've tried replicating the various scenarios ie after a long drive and also at various times of the day. I am happy to report that the problem has been resolved :):):)
     
  23. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,586
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    That's great news. I hope it continues to function error free for you. I have a 2013 F12 and had a slow start after warm up. I replaced the 5+ year old OEM battery with the strongest one made just before winterizing. Its still in storage but will come out in a few weeks for the annual. If I have an issue similar to yours its good to know that the harness can be upsized. From my experience though changing that cable would have been quite the chore. If they did this for free for you I would tip the mechanic. Good luck.
     
  24. Ferro458

    Ferro458 Karting

    May 26, 2014
    188
    I wonder at what model year Ferrari figured this out and revised the harness?

    We are often asked here what model years of the F12 are better or embody improvements. It would be interesting to know if this was a change made during production or after.
     
  25. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2014
    9,586
    Full Name:
    Maximus Decimus Meridius
    It looks like after because the OP went through two batteries, two starters and two starter cables to fix his specific problem. The last cable for sure was after all production. Sometimes you can't always believe what the service rep says unless you have both cables in your hands to compare. A thicker cable (lower gauge wire) will certainly help when supplying instantaneous current with less drop for sure but why change the starter twice if not the cause?

    IMO you cannot answer which year of the F12 is better because no one has posted a year specific issue that I know of. To complicate matters Ferrari may make an improvement just to simplify assembly and throughout production Tier suppliers switch the versioning of their products for a host of reasons of which saving money is very high on the list. Best answered by service shops with significant volume since they would have the most data to compare.
     

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