whats everybody's thought on the future of the F1 transmission. Its now doing 60 milsec in the scuderia which is really amazing. however, how will it fare against the double clutch transmission. the dsg trannys already achieve 8 milsec in the VW Golf and several Audis. the veyron also has a dsg transmission. porsche will introduce its PDK (Porsche Doppel Kupplung) next year. have not driven a car with dsg yet, they are supposed to be totally seamless shifts. SMT: The control of a manual with the ease of an automatic Though it has appeared on a few passenger cars, the SMT is widely used in certain forms of racing and is featured on Ferrari's Enzo supercar. Cars with SMTs have no clutch pedal; the clutch is automatically engaged. Most SMTs can be shifted automatically or manually, the latter using a shift lever or paddles on the steering wheel. The advantage to an SMT is that it uses a solid coupling, as opposed to a fluid coupling (torque converter) as used in a traditional automatic (including Tiptronic- or manumatic-style transmissions). As with a manual transmission, the SMT provides a direct connection between engine and transmission, allowing 100 of the engine's power to be transmitted to the wheels. The SMT provides more immediate response and ensures that the engine RPMs do not drop when the driver lifts off the accelerator (as happens with an automatic), giving her more precise control over power output. SMTs can also perform matched-rev (or double-clutch) downshifts: When the driver downshifts, the SMT disengages the clutch, shifts to neutral, and re-engages the clutch. The SMT calculates what the engine RPMs will be in the next-lowest gear based on the current road speed, and revs the engine (and, since the clutch is engaged, the transmission) to that speed. It then disengages the clutch, shifts into the lower gear, and re-engages the clutch. The result is a smooth change with no jerk and no sudden deceleration. SMTs have one major disadvantage, same as a manual: Power must be interrupted while the transmission changes gears. DSG: An SMT without the lag The DSG all but eliminates the lag inherent in SMTs. The DSG is essentially two 3-speed gearboxes with a pair of clutches. When the driver starts out, transmission #1 is in first gear and transmission #2 is in second. The clutch engages and the car starts out in first. When it's time to change gears, the DSG uses the clutches to swap transmissions. The #1 transmission immediately shifts to third gear. At the next change the DSG swaps transmissions again, and #2 shifts to fourth. The DSG's computerized controller calculates the next likely gearchange and shifts the "idle" transmission into that gear. The advantage is the speed of gearchanges: The DSG takes about 8 milliseconds to upshift. Compare that to the SMT in the Ferrari Enzo, which takes 150 ms to upshift. It's also significantly faster than a human: According to Audi, the A3 runs 0-60 in 6.9 seconds with a 6-speed manual and 6.7 seconds with the 6-speed DSG. Like the SMT, the DSG performs double-clutch downshifts and can skip gears (i.e. downshifting from 6th directly to 4th, 3rd, etc). Driving with the DSG The DSG uses a traditional P-R-N-D-S shift pattern. It can shift automatically in either normal (D) or Sport (S) modes. In Normal mode, the DSG shifts to the higher gears early in order to minimize engine noise and maximize fuel economy. In Sport mode the transmission holds the lower gears longer in order to keep the engine in its powerband. This is especially useful for turbocharged cars like Audi A3, Volkswagen GTI and VW Jetta GLI, since the turbocharger is only active at higher RPMs. Sport mode also provides more aggressive downshifts with slight accelerator pedal pressure. Manual mode is engaged by either sliding the shift lever to the side or pulling one of the paddles on the steering wheel. Once in manual mode, shifts are made by moving the shifter fore and aft or using the paddles (which are marked " " and "-"). If manual mode was engaged with the paddles, pulling and holding the upshift paddle returns the transmission to automatic mode, allowing the driver to quickly downshift to a lower gear for passing and then hand control back over to the transmission. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The DSG in the VW is Porsche's system already. Porsche invented clutchless shifts 25 years ago and licensed the technology for 15 years to VW- which ends this year. That's why 08 Porsche's will come with PDK. The Porsche system is the quickest shifting.
I think there's a (substantial) weight penaly on a twin clutch system compared with a F1 or SMG-type system. That said, I have driven a Golf GTI DSG and the transmission was a joy to use. Smooth as buttah.
If it is essentially two transmissions, then there would definitely be a weight penalty. If not, there is probably a strength penalty because they had to make everything smaller and lighter. Sounds interesting though.
Im no expert on this subject. I did hear or read that the DSG works best in lower powered cars and cn't handle tremendous torque. I am very excited to for the PDK to arrive. In fact, I was going to buy the 997 TT, but declined because I didn't want a manual or a Tip. Im glad to say that is the reason I ended up test driving a 430. Once I did I was hooked. I LOVE the F1 so much. It feels perfect with the car. Sure, faster shifts would be nice on the track, but for city driving I'm mainly in SPORT mode. When I hit RACE mode I feel like I got a new car, but I always end up back in SPORT. Back to the PDK.......If it ends up being amazing then I see a P car in my future BUT not to replace my beloved 430!
I agree and can't wait for the new porsche's with the PDK and the same NOT to replace the ferrari 360 but to add to the toy box collection.
I knew someone would slam me with that question right after I sent the response. First of all I said I am not an expert so relax and take a breath my fello F Chatter. Secondly, the Veyron is not a mass produced vehicle and obviously has a very capable version of the DSG custom made for it. It had better be considering the price. How many Veyron's are going to be made...300? The point I was trying to make was that I had either heard or read that the DSG that is offered in VW and Audi cars is only in cars with smaller engines. I believe that the S4 has it available with it's V8 pulling around 340 HP. It is NOT offered in the R8. Why isn't it??
I would have to say that no more than 50 Veyrons will be built. HPA/HGP offer upgraded clutch packs for DSG gearboxes that can handle up to their 650HP 3.2L TT offerings, so the gearbox is more than capable. VW/Audi just chooses not to fit it to higher end cars (Veyron excepted). Unless I am very much mistaken, I don't think the S4 is available with DSG.
porsche IS coming with PDK next year. so it will have to be able to handle the TT's torque which is 680 lbft with overboost on. the DSG tranny in the veyron costs 40k to replace...
