F1 ROLEX SAKHIR GRAND PRIX 2020: RACE ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄▀▄ | Page 22 | FerrariChat

F1 ROLEX SAKHIR GRAND PRIX 2020: RACE ▄▀▄▀▄▀ SPOILERS ▀▄▀▄▀▄

Discussion in 'F1' started by SPEEDCORE, Dec 5, 2020.

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  1. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    Drivers have been more likely to win in top cars since the beginning of F1
     
  2. absostone

    absostone F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2008
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    Of course . But DAS, and a longer body to accomodate aero. ?
     
  3. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Not when he won his titles. We could argue about the year Senna died but the Williams was not quite as good as expected and the Benetton had some ahem, say non standard electronics that helped MS.

    Which also addresses the other complaint I see a lot about Lewis (insert any WDC here): Put him into a Williams and see what he can do. The answer is: Not a whole lot. Of course you need at the very least a competitive car to win the title. Max is the best example: He is one of the best drivers ever yet only 3rd in the WDC despite a fairly competitive car. The times where a sub top car wins the title are far and few in between. Keke comes to mind, as well when a Williams spoiled the McLaren show. But these are exceptions.

    And one more time: only the best driver gets the best car, believing otherwise is naive in a world where absolutely everything is top notch

    Schumacher deserved the best car as much as Hamilton does now.
     
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  4. Adrian Thompson

    Adrian Thompson Formula Junior

    Apr 28, 2004
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    Adrian Thompson
    Outstanding race for Racing Point and a well deserved win by Checo.

    Outstanding demonstration by Russel. Well done, kid has a hell of a future like many have thought. He may have been trolling around at the back of the grid, but his talent has been on display both against his team mate, and some of the moves he's pulled off. His form shouldn't have been a shocker to anyone.

    The lengths some on here will go to, to find conspiracies to 'prove' that LCH isn't all that good are hilarious. What was to be gained by LCH faking COVID? It doesn't stack up. And as for the tire screw up, again, people are desperately searching for conspiracies as to why it happens as soon as LCH wasn't there. IT's simple. Merc had a high percentage of 'new' to race weekend team members there due to significant positive covid tests. Also it's been proven that Russel came on the radio just as the pit stop, stacking and tire info was going out over the radio's too, meaning some people heard the wrong message and didn't get all the info. It's possible for situations and people to make mistakes. IT's not proof of a team deliberately screwing up to 'prove' a driver who isn't there is better than one who is!! The hate around here for LCH is stunning.

    Please please Scuderia, please have a better car next year for Sainz to hand out an ass whooping to Max. Pretty please.
     
  5. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    Yes refined and powerful - balanced, one does not need to 'work' as hard. Ricci passed this to Russell before the race. The key when at this level in a car this refined is to consistently employee it and win. Also manage the rough bumps as they appear and will affect the team and driver confidence. We know he is fast in this car and on a track that was less than F1 standard. I fully expect him to be fast in Yas. He is lucky that the track is not known for good racing or major over takes. The weather will be as consistent also. This is a superb test for him.

    Easy in the car does not automatically yield results. That 'easy' part also needs to match with known or habitual driver style. It would appear to me with just practice and the race, he has some driving style similar to LH. That is good luck for Mercedes since maybe he will need little assimilation time. The problem is he will not join Mercedes in this car, assuming he is selected. That might be not a great style match with the next generation of F1 machines or tires. Like Toto said his joining the team is far away and he warned Russell of this. He will enjoy his next year at Williams and gain more experience.
     
  6. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    May 19, 2019
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    You can't fire the owner/family, can you?
     
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  7. simpen

    simpen Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2016
    291
    It's all relative. Some people think 7 world titles mean nothing because they were not won against the best possible team mate, and a P9 with some promising driving is the next big superstar of F1. Good effort, but he hardly even knows all the buttons on the steering wheel, let alone winning an F1 championship.

    I hope Russell gets a chance to show more in the future, but I would sure hope that the Hamilton haters could stop search for every (im)possible reason to dismiss his achievements. I get it, Schumi's records are broken and that feels sore, but let's not beat the same dead horse every week from now on.
     
  8. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    agreed and edited
     
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  9. DF1

    DF1 Two Time F1 World Champ

    A small interesting style insect will be heard..................and nothing more, if we stop beating the dead horse LOL :)
     
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Rest assured they'll never tire of dissing Lewis. One of my best buddies is of the same group. I just ignore his comments when it comes to Hamilton. It's pointless. At least he agrees with me on celebrating RP and its drivers. :)
     
  11. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Mar 19, 2017
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    Hamilton has done his part...and done it well. And Mercedes has done their job better than any other team, year after year after year. They never gave up, when they were behind nor when they were ahead. They have never rested on their laurels. They continually develop the car. They spend however many dollars it takes. A few bad calls from the pits over how many years? Sure. Compared to any other team? They are better than any other team.

    Would Max or Charles or Ricardo do as well as Lewis in the same car? I don't think so. I think Lewis is more driven, demands more from himself than any other driver on the grid. Maybe the others let up just a hair because they don't have Hamilton's car, so they give up fighting. Perez's drive yesterday was the kind of drive we almost always see from Hamilton...determined to fight for every place even when events have him fighting from the back of the pack.

    What yesterday's race makes Mercedes question is, do we need to spend all that money on Hamilton just to get him one more WDC...when we can very likely get another WCC without him? Does Mercedes really care about F1 after 2021? I think Hamilton wants #8...and I think he'll drop his price to stay with Mercedes. Russell needs to push someone out of their seat on a top three team for next year or risk falling back into being one of those bright young stars that faded quickly for lack of a good ride.
     
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  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Agreed

    Yeah, Lewis should have completed his contract negotiations before getting Covid. Hindsight is 20/20 but he is now really in a weakened position: Toto could replace him with Russell and have a good chance at still winning the title while saving probably 60 millions. Not that I see this going to happen but Lewis' negotiation position weakened big time. Kinda ironic as it was so strong after his 7th title. How fast things can change.

    I agree, Lewis might have to take a pay cut to keep the seat. Then he'll bag #8 and become unattainable in the sport's standings. Come 2022 he'll be doing something completely different, not F1 related and new blood will have at the title (Max, Leclerc, Russell).

    PS: Could be worse. You could be Bottas. Biggest loser of the weekend.
     
  13. stavura

    stavura Formula 3

    Sep 1, 2016
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    If Lawrence wants a successful F1 team, then yeah Lance should be shown the door for a proven and consistent points scorer. I think Lance likes ice hockey as well, he could go and do that instead.
     
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  14. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
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    Lewis is proven, he can stay composed over a season to win the championship. A proven driver with experience cost more. Russell is an unknown over a season championship battle. Toto knows this
     
  15. steved033

    steved033 F1 Veteran
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  16. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I can envision Lewis hanging out in the motorhome with a scrambler/jammer for the pit radio. :D
     
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  17. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Ahhhh-HAAAAA.....it was Lewis that jinxed that double stack pit-stip.:p
     
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  18. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    No one here thinks Hamilton is a mediocre driver. Frankly I admire him even for some of his seasons (2007 -2009 ).

    However when Murray Walker began to say that he was better than Senna and Schumacher, he opened an inventory right.

    So it’s not the same thing at all and let’s as an old F1 fan put the facts into perspective.
    The example of Vettel’s four titles shows us how careful we have to be during this decade, especially since 2014 when Lewis has been driving in the strongest team in history.

    During this period he had as teammate a rosberg whose main feat was to beat an aging and wounded Schumacher.

    These last four titles were acquired with Bottas as a teammate. The same Bottas dominated this weekend by a Rookie badly seated in a car.
    At the end of his career, his number of titles , wins , poles will be the result of exceptional circumstances, that is to say the absolute domination of a team over a very long period. That is a fact.

    Russell is the great teller of this.
     
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  19. ktu

    ktu F1 Rookie

    May 30, 2012
    3,851
    But you can pic apart any champions legacy if that's your goal. Schumacher was the only driver in history to be disqualified, that alone killed his legacy for some. Schumacher's long history of cheating allegations. Schumacher never having a champion or outstanding teammate. Schumacher not able to win 1 legit race in 2005 while being in a top team. Schumacher getting beat by Rosberg 3 years in a row. Any of these will reduce Schumacher's legacy to many. Choose one.
    Fangio never drove a midfield car, yet he is highly regarded as one of the greats.
     
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  20. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

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    Again, that’s not the debate. Having all the records in this sport doesn’t automatically make you the best. For me Alonso remains more complete than Lewis but that’s only my opinion. Pseudo-specialists as well as fanboys should show more humility I think..
     
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  21. mdrums

    mdrums Formula 3

    Jun 11, 2006
    2,172
    Tampa FL
    Really well said! I think if Max was in Bottas car Max would have more wins/polls than Bottas not a lot more just a few...at least my thoughts....sure would be interesting ;-)
     
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  22. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,252
    It "proves" nothing of the sort.

    Lewis has a driving style that is inherently cleaner, andd this driving style enables fewer errors. Lewis drives much more like Lauda while Max drives much more like Michael in his earlier days.
     
  23. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    True. At this point, Lewis' driving has evolved to match the current formula almost perfectly. Easy on the tires, plays the long game in a race versus driving balls-to-the-walls. The way he sets up for a pass is very strategic.

    To sum up Lewis' qualities as a driver in the Benz....if it wasn't him we're talking about, we'd be diminishing someone else's capabilities for winning in it. Max, Charles, Russell, etc would all be diminished as drivers for being in the best car.

    And ALL of them would take that if given a fair shot to have it.
     
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  24. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

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    Prediction: Russell to Merc in 2022....not much drama there actually. They wanted him this year, but Williams wouldn't agree to let him out of his contract. They are keeping Bottas for another season.
     
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  25. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie


    Unproven by the FIA investigation.
    IIRC - 3 teams were investigated for alllegedly using illegal electronics; McLaren, Benetton, Ferrari.
    No teams were found guilty.
     
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