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F1 commits to hybrid power units for next generation of engines

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Nov 12, 2020.

  1. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Well, maybe you don't care, but some people do.

    It will be interesting for many to find out how much percentage of ethanol an ICE can take.

    Their next car purchase may depend on it.
     
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  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    Hybridization is only an intermediate step in full electricalization.
     
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  4. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    An ICE can run on 100% ethanol (or 100% methanol, or 100% hydrogen) of the 2 former, INDY Car has used both for 50 years.
    Many drag cars use ethanol (Alcohol fuelies anyone)
    Ethanol and Methanol have advantages:: higher octane ratings, higher thermal absorption in vaporization
    And a few disadvantages: a gallon of gasoline has 30% more energy in it than a gallon of (100%) Ethanol.
    So an F1 race distance of fuel will weigh more with ethanol than with gasoline.
     
  5. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
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    FWIW.
    I think that's to sad, as a fan, would rather a return to NA engines.
    Yet, I can see the manufactures desire to explore hybrids as "tickle-down" to street cars.
     
  6. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Idiots.
     
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  8. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Possibly, but as long as it exists for the rest of my life, I will be happy.

    I don't expect the industry to find a remedy to battery weight and charge time within the next 30 years.
     
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  9. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Toyota put Hybrids on the road in 1997, long before F1 adopted them. Toyota Prius, which is more exciting than the racing we've gotten out of F1 since they adopted hybrid tech.
     
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  10. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    I know the characteristics of methanol, having raced grass-track bikes early in life.
    Methanol isn't a friendly fuel to use. It corrodes fuel lines, and literally eats plastic and rubber.
    So I don't know how they would solve that on a road car.
    On my bikes, I had to flush the tank, the fuel lines and the carb between races.
     
  11. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
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    To be sure, the concoctions they used as fuel in the first turbo era hardly resembled gasoline, either !
    I noticed all the mechanics wearing tall gloves (like acid gloves) just putting fuel in the cars.
     
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  13. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    the simple fact is that the level of tech F1 hybrids we'll never see in road cars. At best they'll have a simplified version of it (i.e. the 48v alternator driven ''electric'' turbo charger by Garrett).

    So why bother catering to manufacturers interest? If anything allow them to do whatever they want. Invent a new way to make the car go forward.
     
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  14. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    The rapidly growing lack of interest in automobiles, except self driving ones, is the real canary in the coal mine. The pedestrianizing of streets in cities throughout Europe is one example. The influx of government owned or franchised electric scooters and bicycles, the percentage of low finance leases vs purchases, the introduction of subscribing to personal transportation systems, the increase in online shopping (without a test drive) are all business models that show the automobile as a just another appliance...to be continually replaced with something that is even more convenient. The average person's smart phone is of more interest and importance to them than how they get from point A to point B. In this techno-psychological environment/evolution, it doesn't matter what the FIA does or what we want. Perhaps Robot Racing in Circus Maximus will be there...but not what any of us would call motor sport.
     
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  15. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 Rookie
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    Look, they don't really have to invent a new way to make the car go forward. They are still using motors to make the car move even if they are electric motors and not ICE. All they have to do is have similar range and similar "refueling/recharging" and electrics would dominate sales tomorrow.
     
  16. simpen

    simpen Karting

    Jun 14, 2016
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    Trickle-down technology is a fallacy, except when F1 moves toward autonomous, electric vehicles. F1 engine tech has become irrelevant for consumers.

    The hybrid formula is seriously flawed, in the way that it is an overly complex and expensive technique for an in-between technology. The enormous trouble that AMG are having with their Project ONE just goes to show how impossible the technology translates to street use. By the time the "sell on Monday" engineers figured out how to make the result of the "race on Sunday" engineers work in the street, it is obsolete.
     
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  17. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Yep, the world change. Some people adapt to it, some people don't.
     
  18. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    Covid has altered the thinking in big cities for good.
    More people than ever using bicycles for daily stuff around London. Cheap, clean, fun and free parking. Taxis if you're +1 for a night out.
    A fun ICE is then chosen for long range trips.

    But it leaves a big financial hole which the Mayor needs to figure out. He will need to start taxing EV's to compensate.
     
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  19. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Biking is OK if you are young and don't carry anything. And wait when it becomes cold this winter!
    Before he became PM, Boris used to ride to Westminster, but sent his briefcase by taxi !!

    Don't talk to me about the Mayor of London !!!
     
  20. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    I used to occasionally cycle past Boris as he wobbled along wearing his bicycle leg clips. He wasn't the best rider in town but at least he practiced what he preached, unlike Mayor Khan !

    Modern bicycles come with all kinds of storage / pannier solutions and London rarely suffers harsh winters anymore.
    When it does the Tube is nice and warm.
     
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  21. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    The dutch manage in winter driving their bicycles. The electric bicycles they have now are quite good. If I lived in a city and getting around in a car was a pain I'd be quite tempted with one of those.

    RE Khant....seems we do agree on something!!! He makes my piss boil.
     
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  22. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Maybe the Dutch "drive" their bicycles, but us Brits we only ride them. :D

    Also not everybody wants to turn up at the office all sweaty.
     
  23. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    There are engines that run on 100% ethanol since the 70's, at least.
     
  24. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    #46 Flavio_C, Nov 13, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2020
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  25. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Yes, in Brazil I heard.
     
  26. SimCity3

    SimCity3 Formula 3


    We only sweat if we're not fit
     
  27. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    You are forgetting the 107º Texas summer heat, or the 113º Phoenix summer heat, or the Miami 100º with 100% humidity summer heat.
    In those conditions even being outside of air conditioning is "not worth it", whether you carry anything or not.
     
  28. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
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    I second that. 110 degree heat index with 100% humidity.

    If you don't have a car/truck/suv garage, your car is literally covered in condensation by early morning.
     

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