F1 30amp relay upgrade and TCU?

Matt- Believe this is what you want on the 50 amp relay for the F1 pump motor. Check with Daniel at Ricambi to make sure it fits your connector. Pretty cheap insurance.

http://www.ricambiamerica.com/product_info.php?products_id=280709

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Matt.......... From all the postings out there...........Its still a little spooky to put a 50Amp relay out there
if it was originally rated for the 30Amp. My "suspicion" is that the original F1 pumps were truely not matched
with the correct amp setup, but, 50 may be a bit high.

Also. I think I've heard you can not just put the 50 in there, but also need to get a new base with it? (3prong
vs 4prong possibly)

When my F1 pump went out, part of it was a "new" 30Amp relay along with a new pump model. (Same
one that Ricambi has). That could do the trick.

One thing I'd like to see someone do is put one of those meters in the relay/fuse pocket to see what the
maximum draw is. (which would tell a good story).


BobR

 

As previously noted, Daniel at Ricambi is your man.

 

i think it's pretty rare for the 30 amp relay to fail and cause the F1 pump to burn out. if you track the car a lot and are up and down the gears all day long then you might like the 50 amp relay. for less extreme driving the 30 amp is probably fine. but if it were easy to plug in a 50 amp in place of the 30 amp then i would do it. but it's not easy. apparently it's a big hassle if you want it done "clean". you can probably mickey mouse it, but it's a ferrari so don't do that.

i have two stradales. the first one has the 30 amp and the second one has the 50 amp. i thought about changing the 30 amp but like i said it's a big hassle to do it right. it's not worth the trouble. if the relay fails you'll hear the F1 pump running constantly so you can turn the battery power off switch to off which stops all electrical items. this way you won't burn out the F1 pump, and you can replace the relay.

 

Matt- Just for the record, a relay is not a fuse and the F1 pump relay is not the safety link between the electrical system and the pump. That is the purpose of the 30 amp fuse. You could use a 100 amp relay and still be just as safe, because the fuse is only going to let 30 amps through before burning out. Ferrari made the change to a 50 amp relay on both the 360 and 575M because the 30 amp relays were overheating, failing and cooking F1 pump motors. No safety implications using a larger relay. It just handles the same current load without overheating.

Fit issues are best dealt with by talking to Daniel at Ricambi. Incidentally, one 360 owner reported finding a compatible 50 amp relay which fit perfectly into the early 360 connector. You might do a search in the 360 and technical sections and see what you can find.

Mine came with a 50 amp relay and has a 30 amp fuse.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Thanks for clearning that up Terry. I have an EE and I read a lot of posts about electical stuff where people are talking without any knowledge. This one jumpped out at me because I have corrected it before and have been ignored.

Anyway, there was someone who reported a 50 that fit but I don't think that they posted the PN or maker. I was monitornign this subject because I am thinking about making the change.

I believe that F also sells a wiring harness upgrade that fits the 50A relay. Don't know the PN or cost but Daniel can probably help with that.

John

 

Matt, John- This is one of those strange things where the Ferrari parts book says the old part is replaced by a new part, but the new part clearly has different connectors. I believe the poster who found a replacement just took the number off his relay (not the Ferrari part number) and cross-referenced it to find the compatible 50 amp relay.

At any rate, here are the two relays and parts numbers. Clearly the connectors do not match. Go to Ricambi's site and punch in either part number and it will show you where the relay is located in the rear passenger control station. May be able to find a suitable replacement.

I never throw rocks at other people's misconceptions on how electrical systems work. I have too many of my own. Hopefully Daniel to the rescue with an adapter or solution.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Appropriately reprimanded. I say plenty of stupid things on here too.

 

The amperage rating on a relay is max amps to the relay therefore it makes no difference what the rating is as long as it is higher than the one you replace. Also a almost dead or weak battery will cause a under voltage condidtion therefore the motor will pull more amps.

 

John- Not meant as pimp on you, just an acknowledgement of my lack of ability with a VOM meter or wiring diagram. Half of rocket scientists are EEs, most of the rest are MEs. My degree is chemistry and math, so go figure.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Fit the 50 amp relay. It's really not a big deal to alter the pin-outs on the relay base. I've been fitting the 50 amp "Bitron" relays, black in colour, part number 46520419. As the relay is the weak link in the system it's definately worth upgrading. When/if the pump fails upgrade it to the new spec. pump which draws less current.

 

FYI......... I had the F1 & Relay item done last month.....(PNs 213264 for the Pump & 155437 for the Relay).

Question here..... Is it possible that the new relay (155437) is a plug-and-play (as they say) fix for the issue,
and that the original relay was inferior by design? May sound simple thinking "a relay is a relay is a relay" but
as we all know from the wonderful inventors of Lucas brands of long-ago-and-far-away, that just aint so.

Or is the consensus that its really a combination of the original F1 pump AND the original relay that just were
not meant to be?

(Do we not have any parents here where their kids need to do that ever so popular science experiment?)



Bob

 

Bob- 155437 is the old 30 amp relay.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Old 30A relay's extra small blade at the corner is a ground IIRC, and the contacts inside are silver with all metal construction. The new 50A relay current carrying blades are Maxi Fuse sized so won't plug into the 30A relay base. You can buy the larger relay socket from electronics parts shop and retro fit to old OEM wiring yourself to accept the new 50A relay.

BTW, not all 50A relays are the same. Apparently they have different duty cycle rating. We tried some 50A Tyco relays and lasted only 1 week. The contact got stuck on the plastic tab inside from the heat. Since OEM 50A is relatively cheap, I'd suggest 50A OEM relay if you do decide to switch.

 

50A relay base is a standard part similar to regular sized auto relay base just slightly bigger in size. Tyco makes one.

Don't know if differnt build versions of regular 360 TCU shifts that much differently. If you are considering updating your TCU for better performance, then look at a Stradale TCU. Up shift is slightly quicker, down shifts are much quicker.

 

Matt- In 2005 the F1 shifter in the 575M was improved as part of the HGTC option package. As far as I know, the entire purpose was to enable quicker shifts and not to extend clutch life. Here is a list of affected parts, which should be similar to those used on the 360 Challenge Stradale. A little work in Ricambi's on-line parts catalogs may provide the answers you need for your 360.

An updated 360 F1 ECU, 211023, came out during the production run and costs $3647 from Ricambi. The CS TCU, 196986, costs $1647. Whether either would fit an earlier 360, I do not know. If you look at the 360 parts catalog, it will tell you the later F1 ECU started at assembly number 47380, so yours may already have it.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Matt- SD2/3 contain all kinds of Ferrari proprietary software. An SD2 is for sale on E-Bay for $25,000 and Ricambi just got a great deal on new SD3s for, I believe, a bit less than that. SD3 now the way to go, but usually only for professional shops.

I kept hoping the pro shops would start using SD3s exclusively and some used SD2s would pop up for the older cars, but no such luck.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry...... you sure about that? I thought I had seen that number also posted on Ricambi as the most
recent 30amp relay number. (can't remember what the original was). Plus, thats what FOA had just
installed.



BobR

 

Bob- There is only one 30 amp F1 relay for 360s and it is 155437, used on a large number of early F1 models. The parts manuals say it was replaced by the 50 amp relay. So if you want to stick with the 30 amp relay, 155437 is it.

Taz
Terry Phillips