News

F1 2022 - News/Regulation change/Developments

Discussion in 'F1' started by DF1, Sep 19, 2020.

  1. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    31,501
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    I understand their reasons for the current era. I guess in their Mercedes era Mercedes came in with significant sponsorship so it made sense then too...but before that? Especially at their time messing around with Ford/Lamborghini/Peugeot...I wonder how close they came to just say ''**** it, lets develop our own''? Especially with their time with Peugeot.
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    31,501
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    Yep exactly so.
     
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    8,078
    See McLaren TAG Turbo MP2/4 1984-86.
     
    Bas likes this.
  5. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 19, 2017
    4,069
    I don't see any manufacturer putting multiple billions of dollars into F1 engines because it is the green thing to do. I see a group developed spec engine, and the teams just play with aero so that it appears like real racing. Drone racing will replace go karts as the launching pad for the next generation of F1 drivers. This next engine will be the last hybrid, after that it is 100% electric.
     
  6. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    7,552
    McLaren CanAm cars used McLaren engines--427 Chevs bored and stroked to 500 CID making 900 HP circa 1969
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. william

    william F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 3, 2006
    17,266
    England
    Full Name:
    William Denoyelles

    Supplied by Bartz or Traco, I believe.
     
  9. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
    Moderator Owner

    Jul 1, 2013
    10,337
    Menlo Park, CA
    Full Name:
    Paul Chua
    DF1 and jpalmito like this.
  10. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 19, 2017
    4,069
    Better racing comes from the slow cars figuring out how to go faster, not from making the fast cars go slower. This has been what is killing F1.
     
    william likes this.
  11. To remove this ad click here.

  12. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    An opinion on the next set of regulations for F1 and engines-- https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/155020/why-f1-will-be-very-aggressive-on-new-engine-rules

    Why Formula 1 will be "very aggressive" on its next engine rules

    OPINION: After the significant decision was agreed by Formula 1 teams to freeze engine development from 2022, focus will invariably turn to the next set of regulations. As JONATHAN NOBLE explains, F1 is prepared to learn from the mistakes of 2014

    Formula 1 has made no secret of the fact that it did not get its current engine rules right. While the move to turbo hybrids in 2014 was the right thing to do for sustainability reasons and keeping manufacturers interested, mistakes were made in how the power unit rules were framed.

    When pulling the new regulations together, engineers had run rampant in leading the charge about the exciting technologies that could be incorporated in the 1.4-litre turbos and their energy recovery systems. The result was overtly complex power units that proved hugely expensive to understand and develop.

    The combination of the MGU-H and MGU-K, plus a lot of design freedom in the overall concept, meant the complexity become an expensive challenge for manufacturers - and prompted a number of headaches in the early years.

    Honda's experience of getting it so wrong on its F1 return acted as a deterrent for other manufacturers - and the costs the Japanese manufacturer faced in hauling its way to the front ultimately proved a factor in it deciding to pull out of F1 at the end of this year.


    The engines were not just bad for those designing and running them though. For fans, the biggest downside was that they robbed the sport of much of the emotion of the old screaming V10s and V8s. The lack of noise was a big gripe, and the impact of drivers having to fuel save left many F1 devotees unhappy that grands prix had been turned into economy runs.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Mistakes were also made in how F1 failed to market some of the positive messages of the power units. That the most powerful engines in grand prix history - and ones that were the most efficient racing engines ever created - were being unleashed was quickly lost amid the other criticisms. As thoughts have turned to future power unit regulations, it is clear that F1's chiefs are not going to make the same mistakes again.

    During discussions at Thursday's F1 Commission meeting, one of the key decisions made was a framing of the progress of the move towards new engines rules. These had originally been planned to come into force for 2026, but teams agreed to bring that forward one year on the back of a unanimous decision to go for an engine freeze from 2022.

    Achieving its targets will not be the work of the moment, but what is different this time around compared to when the 2014 engines were framed is that F1's chiefs are fully aligned on where things need to go
    A working group has now been set up to sort out what the new hybrid F1 engines should be like - with input from both current and potentially interested manufacturers.

    Its stated aims have been agreed. They are: environmental sustainability and social and automotive relevance; fully sustainable fuel; creating a 'powerful and emotive' power unit; significant cost reduction and attractiveness to new power unit manufacturers.

    Achieving all those targets will not be the work of the moment, but what is different this time around compared to when the 2014 engines were framed is that F1's chiefs are fully aligned on where things need to go.

    Back when the original turbo hybrid rules were laid out, they were not helped by FIA president Jean Todt pushing hard for them, and then F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone being resistant and criticising them at every turn. Ecclestone famously lambasted the lack of noise to the media when the hybrids ran for the first time in testing - even though he was nearly 1500 miles away back at his London offices as the cars were running in Jerez.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    Now though, not only is the FIA behind the push but so too is F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali - whose approach to the new rules comes against the backdrop of his understanding of the needs of F1 (through being a former Ferrari team boss) and that of manufacturers (from being a former Lamborghini CEO). He is convinced that power unit rules can be framed that can keep both manufacturers and fans happy - as well as attract car makers not currently involved in F1.

    But getting the rules settled in the right way is not going to be straightforward - which is why Domenicali has vowed not to sit back and let the mistakes of the past get repeated. Speaking recently about his mindset for the rules discussions, he made clear where the battle lines were drawn.

    "Despite the technology that has to be very relevant, we need to start from the cost and investment that are fundamental to make it attractive for any other OEM to either produce an engine or to be part of an engine plus chassis production," he said.

    "So engine and cost will be the big equation on which we need to start the discussion. We need to be very aggressive.

    "But I am positive to say that we are attacking the right points, which will be fundamental to keep the interest on our platform, also from the technological point of view."

    While the discussions over the next months will inevitably hit some road blocks, the fact they are starting with some clear and agreed targets in mind - that F1 is determined are hit - bodes well for what ends up being unleashed at the start of 2025.
     
  13. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    Such a fun post !!
     
  14. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    March 30 testing Pirelli for 2022 tires 18 inch -
     
  15. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    11,752
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    Sainz went earlier the same day.
     
    DF1 likes this.
  16. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/stash-wolff-with-2022-rule-changes-gaps-will-be-big-again/6432084/
    Wolff expects "totally disjointed" F1 field again in 2022
    By: Luke Smith
    Co-author: Christian Nimmervoll
    Apr 24, 2021, 5:00 AM
    Toto Wolff believes the Formula 1 field will become “totally disjointed” in 2022 when the technical regulations change and that the grid will lose its current performance convergence.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Following a majority freeze in the technical regulations for 2021 as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, the performance gap between the leading teams and the rest of the grid has dropped this year.

    Less than half a second covered the top eight drivers in qualifying for last weekend’s Emilia Romagna Grand Prix at Imola, including drivers from Mercedes, Red Bull, AlphaTauri, Ferrari and McLaren.

    At the same race six months earlier, only Lewis Hamilton qualified within half a second of team-mate Valtteri Bottas’ pole position time, with the top eight being covered by more than one second.

    F1 is set to overhaul the technical regulations in 2022 after delaying the introduction of the new rules by one year, but many fear the current competitiveness of the field will be lost.


    Mercedes team boss Wolff said it was “quite logical” to expect convergence when the rules were stabilised, cutting the advantage at the front of the pack.

    But he was confident that the larger gaps would return next year when the regulations are changed.

    “If you keep the rules, the field converges,” Wolff said. “For those in front, the gains get smaller and smaller, even with more effort.

    “And at some point, the teams that are behind will also continue this steep form curve, and then there's the convergence.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Toto Wolff, Team Principal and CEO, Mercedes AMG

    Photo by: Steve Etherington / Motorsport Images

    “If you look at qualifying today, it's tip-top - the way I felt that was the direction we should go.

    “I promise you that next year, we’ll have another situation where we'll have a totally disjointed field. Maybe not with Mercedes in front, but certainly back to square one.”

    Mercedes is currently engaged in a close battle with Red Bull at the front of the field, the teams having scored one win apiece in the opening two races.

    Wolff said that Mercedes still trailed Red Bull for outright pace at Imola, despite Hamilton beating Sergio Perez to pole, leaving the defending champion team with work to do to catch up.


    “We are behind Red Bull at the moment, in all areas of the car,” Wolff said.

    “We have to catch up first. I think the racing gods were kind to us in Bahrain, that we got the most out of the car [to win the race]. That was good in the race.

    “If everything runs cleanly and everyone stays faultless [in qualifying], we are two-tenths behind Max [Verstappen] on the grid, and not in front.

    “But in sport, everything always turns out differently, and Lewis really conjured up a super lap. That's why he was in front.

    “We're stretching with everything we've got against what we think is a better Red Bull package.”





     
    Thecadster likes this.
  17. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 10, 2007
    19,990
    BaWü
    I agree with this. More testing for the new cars and season 2022.

    McLaren wants return to extra F1 testing in 2022
    By: Adam Cooper
    Apr 24, 2021, 6:00 AM
    McLaren Formula 1 team principal Andreas Seidl wants to see an extended pre-season testing programme return in 2022 after this year’s reduced running.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    For cost reasons, teams agreed to have just a single three-day session in Bahrain in 2021, shared between their two drivers.

    That put extra pressure on any teams that suffered mechanical problems at the test and lost track running, and it also made life difficult for drivers settling into new teams, including McLaren’s Daniel Ricciardo.

    Ricciardo was asked to move aside for team-mate Lando Norris in last weekend's Emilia Romagna Grand Prix and went on to finish sixth as Norris scored his second F1 podium, the Australian admitting that he had "not underestimated" the difficulties in adjusting.

    Seidl says that with F1's radical regulation shift set to come into play next year, after the 2020 chassis were carried over to this year to assist teams' finances amid the pandemic, he's hopeful of reaching an agreement to increase the number of test days.


    “I think there's no point complaining about the one and a half days of testing [per driver in 2020], because that was an agreement between all teams in order to only have one test this year to save costs," he said.

    "So [there's] no point going into that too much.

    “We all hope that for next year we go back to more testing days again, especially knowing that we have completely new cars.”

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Andreas Seidl, Team Principal, McLaren

    Photo by: Steven Tee / Motorsport Images

    Seidl also hopes that the two tests are held with an interval that will allow teams to analyse what they learn from the first outing, in effect mirroring what McLaren tried to achieve this year with its filming day running.

    The Woking outfit, which had the added challenge of switching from Renault to Mercedes power this year, made a special effort to complete its new car early.

    It was able to squeeze in two Silverstone filming days in order to help Ricciardo settle in and for the team to learn about its new power unit with enough time to react before the Bahrain test.

    Seidl added: “In my point of view, or at least from the McLaren point of view, it makes sense to do two tests with a good gap also in between, in order to be able to digest what we have learned from the first test, and also to be able to react with these brand new cars.”
     
    william likes this.
  18. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 31, 2016
    11,752
    Corpus Christi, Tx.
    Full Name:
    Joe R Gonzales
    3 races are done for 2021 and Ferrari is heavily focused on the 2022 car already.

    Ferrari has switched ’90-95%’ of resources to its 2022 car

    Mekies: "We’ve switched the large majority of our resources to 2022 already. It doesn’t mean some details won’t change on the car [for this year]. But the focus is on next year. If you want to put a number to it, 90-95% our resources are onto 2022."


    https://the-race.com/formula-1/ferrari-has-switched-90-95-of-resources-to-its-2022-car/
     
  19. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Rookie

    Jun 5, 2009
    2,662
    Le caylar (France)
    Full Name:
    mathieu Jeantet

    Do they have more hours of aerodynamic development allowed by the regulations compared to Mercedes and Red Bull for the 2022 car?
     
    ingegnere likes this.
  20. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
    31,501
    South Pacific
    Full Name:
    Bas
    yes

    reviewed at halfway point or something.
     
    ingegnere, jgonzalesm6 and jpalmito like this.

Share This Page