Enzo vs Saleen S7 twin turbo

I highly doubt the Saleen S7 twin turbo will run circles around the Enzo, but I am sure it will be a close race. I do not know how you can compare a standard Saleen S7 to a CLK-GTR and an Enzo. The fact of matter is both the Enzo and CLK will run circles around the Saleen S7. I know that for a fact because a body of mine had the Saleen S7 and has an Enzo. He got rid of the S7 because he felt it was not worth the money and on top of it tested both cars at the track. The result: the Saleen was no competition for the Enzo. He thought the S7 was more comparable to the Lamborghini Murcielago(which he had). I know for a fact if the Enzo can beat the S7, than for sure the CLK-GTR. The CLK-GTR is a race car for the road. My friend who test drives for Mercedes says the CLK-GTR is basically the racecar just with better interior, everything else is the same. Here is some stats for you on how the S7 compares with the other super cars. Look at the 0-60, which is pretty close but then look at the 0-100 and the braking. In addition I have attached a little article about the S7.




Saleen is a well-known American tuner famous for its upgraded Ford Mustangs. But now they've gone one-up and built their own car from scratch - the S7. Debuting in 2001, it is dubbed America's first true supercar, bypassing Corvettes and Vipers to compete with the fastest exotic cars on the road today, capabale of speeds in excess of 200 mph. According to their hype, its ground effects are so extreme that the S7 can be driven upside down at 160 mph and still stay glued to the tarmac. Amazingly, it only took 18 months to develop this car, which will have an estimated production run of between 300 and 400 cars over four years.

Saleen's usual design guru, Phil Frank, digitally drew up the exterior design, influenced heavily by the engineering department's wind tunnel tests. Underside aerodynamics and functional scoops al over the body optimize airflow around the car, keeping it stable at high speeds. Even the driver's seat is moved slightly towards the center of the car for optimal weight distribution. The car can hold luggage at the front and back due its mid-engine layout, and the interior has common creature comforts like a CD changer and power windows. In a step up from other exotics, the S7 employs video cameras instead of rear view mirrors, thus eliminating the need to remove any mirrors during top speed runs in a bid to reduce drag.

The Saleen S7's 7.0L naturally aspirated engine is based on Ford's all-so-common V8 workhorse, but it is all-aluminum in this application, with a larger displacement and shorter overall length. Although the 550 hp fed to the rear wheels is less than the McLaren F1's 627 hp, the V8 produces more torque - 520 lb-ft compared to the F1's 479 lb-ft. Initial acceleration figures are excellent, easily keeping up with an Ameritech F1, but top end grunt is another story. Even a Viper SRT-10 can catch up to the S7 at around the 100 mph mark. The new Viper can stop quicker too, since the S7 has no ABS. In the Saleen's defence, a Viper tops out at just above 190 mph, while the S7 can keep on going well past that mark.

So can this lightweight American challenge the top speed crown? Sadly, the S7 has never undergone high speed tests, but even in theory, the car is expected to top out at 220 mph - better than the 1992 uber-Jag, tying the latest iteration of the 7.3L Pagani Zonda, but not even close to the Big Mac. But heck, it's only two-thirds the cost of a Ferrari Enzo and one-third the cost of the F1.


McLaren F1 Saleen S7 Ferrari Enzo Koenigsegg CC

Years in Production
1993-1997 2001-2004 2002-2004 2002-2006

Base Price
$1,000,000 (est) $375,000 $643,330 $470,000 (est)

Engine
V12 V8 V12 V8 sup'charged

Valvetrain
48 valve DOHC 16 valve OHV 48 valve DOHC 32 valve DOHC

Displacement
6064 cc 7008 cc 5998 cc 4700 cc

Power
627 hp
@ 7400 rpm 550 hp
@ 5900 rpm 650 hp
@ 7800 rpm 655 hp
@ 6800 rpm

Torque
479 lb-ft
@ 5600 rpm 525 lb-ft
@ 4000 rpm 485 lb-ft
@ 5500 rpm 553 lb-ft
@ 5000 rpm

Redline
7500 rpm (limit) 6500 rpm 8000 rpm 7500 rpm

Horsepower per liter
103.4 78.5 108.4 139.3

Setup
Midengine RWD Midengine RWD Midengine RWD Midengine RWD

Gearbox
6-spd manual 6-spd manual 6-spd semi-auto 6-spd manual

McLaren F1 Saleen S7 Ferrari Enzo Koenigsegg CC

Weight
2513 lbs 2870 lbs 3230 lbs 2579 lbs

Dimensions (Length / Width / Height / Wheelbase)
168.8 in.
71.7 in.
44.9 in.
107.0 in. 188.0 in.
78.3 in.
41.0 in.
106.3 in. 185.1 in.
80.1 in.
45.2 in.
104.3 in. 165.0 in.
78.3 in.
42.1 in.
104.7 in.

Suspension
Double wishbones front and rear

Brakes
Vented discs front and rear

Tires (Front / Rear)
235/45ZR-17
315/45ZR-17 275/30ZR-19
355/25ZR-20 245/35ZR-19
345/35ZR-19 245/40ZR-18
315/40ZR-18

Power-to-weight ratio
0.25 hp per lb 0.19 hp per lb 0.20 hp per lb 0.25 hp per lb

McLaren F1 Saleen S7 Ferrari Enzo Koenigsegg CC

Acceleration : 0-60 mph
3.2 sec. 3.3 sec. 3.3 sec. 3.2 sec.

Acceleration : 0-100 mph
6.3 sec. 8.9 sec. 6.6 sec. 7.1 sec.

Acceleration : Quarter Mile
11.1 sec
@ 138 mph 11.8 sec
@ 120 mph 11.1 sec
@ 133 mph 10.8 sec
@ 130 mph

Top Speed
241 mph 220 mph (est) 218 mph (est) 245 mph (est)

Aerodynamic Drag Co-efficient
0.32 Cd 0.29 Cd (est) 0.36 Cd 0.30 Cd

Lateral Acceleration Around 200 ft Skidpad
0.86 G 0.99 G 1.01 G 1.15 G

Braking : 60-0 mph
127 ft 125 ft 109 ft 105 ft

 

Do they have all the stats for the Twin Turbo out yet, though?

All I've seen is 750 hp/ 700 tq at 2950 lbs.
0-62 m.p.h. in 2.8 seconds

That's a whole new ballpark. But I'd like to see what it does as far as braking and handling and how it compares to the NA S7 and if there have been any improvements on par with those in power output and acceleration.

 

I had never compared a "standard S7" to those cars, but spoke as if the S7 TT was in its place. The standard S7 is a hell of a car, I know because there is one in my garage. Alot more of a car than you seem to deem it with your opinions and thoughts from certainly BIAS friends.

It has always amazed me how people can quote magazine articles. As for your friend there CRG, thats called an OPINION. And your listing of stats while you talk about the S7 Twin Turbo, you list stats for the non turbo S7 against those cars. Thats like saying, I wonder what a Non-turbo Ferrari F40 would do.

All together, you missed the point of everything I have said. No car on earth is worth the amouint of money you'd pay for an F1 or CLK GTR, or even the going rate on a Enzo now. They take the price of what the car costs to build, and they triple it for fun now which is ridiculous.

CRG, while you obviously can cut and paste, you still lack common sense. Your mind is obviously clouded since a prancing horse kicked you with its hoof.

 

Very entertaining thread. Thought I'd add my $.02. The Enzo is designed to give Ferrari owners the ultimate roadgoing Ferrari experience. It is a spiritual evolution of the GTO, F40 and F50 using racing technology to provide a fast and safe street experience.

Conversely, the S7 is designed to give owners a driving experience that is as close to the racetrack as possible while offering some additional amenities. They are both awesome cars but different horses for different courses.

IMHO, the S7TT will be able to post quicker times than an Enzo in most performance tests. It doesn't matter.

The S7 is always going to be seen as a street-legal race car that is wicked looking and wickedly fast, but there is no way it will be looked at as true competition for the Enzo in most people's minds because of the Ferrari heritage. Saying you have the ultimate Ferrari is much more impressive to most people than saying you have the ultimate Saleen.

For the price the Saleen is a great buy for the performance you get. The fact is is that you don't see S7s going for twice their sticker price straight out of the showroom and you never will.

Ferrari could have charged $2 mil and there still would have been buyers because they want to have the ultimate model from what they see as the ultimate manufacturer. That doesn't mean they are any less well-endowed because for the same money they could have had an S7, Zonda, CCR, 60 Vettes, 40 Vipers, or whatnot.

It means they know they don't NEED to say they have THE fastest thing on the planet with the highest hp or quickest 0-60. Ownership of an Enzo shows that they are actually quite confident in their trouser sizing and do not need the ego boost of track times to help them deal with buyers' remorse.

One last thought, attacking someone's decision to "blindly" choose an Enzo over a better-performing competitor just because of the name and badge doesn't show that you have a bigger dick, it shows that you are one. Again, just my $.02.

 

Saleen,

I don't think I missed your point. If you are going to talk about the Saleen S7 twin Turbo, than thats what you should talk about. But clearly you state the standard Saleen S7. You are giving your experience of owning one and comparing it to the Enzo and the CLK-GTR. If anyone is biased, its you. As for the price of the Enzo and the CLK-GTR, they are worth it. They only made 399 examples of the Enzo and I know they made less than that of the CLK-GTR. As for the Saleen they are making some couple hundred a year. So if you think it about the Saleen is not worth money because more people will have it. As for the Saleen S7 racing in the AlMS and the FIA GT, yes it is a winner, but in the GTS class not the prototype class. In addition it really did not have much competition, only the Corvette C5(which is 1/4 of the price of a Saleen) and the Maranello( half the price of the Saleen). Where as Ferrari and Mercedes have contested in all three class. Mercedes has won multiple championships in the prototype class, especially the CLK-GTR. As for Ferrari, their efforts have never been that huge in the FIA GT and ALMS. As you know their racing efforts have always been in F1( 5 time world champions). So if Ferrari where to put all their efforts in the FIA GT and ALMS I am sure they would unstoppable. By the way, no my mind is not clouded by the prancing horse kicking me with its hoof. I just don't like ignorant and jealous people like you.

 

That's not really true. The F1 was worth what they charged for it. The Enzo costs what it does because of supply and demand. Ferrari certainly could have made the MSRP 1.2 million and sold them all but did not because then it would have been criticized as being overpriced. The F1, by contrast, with everything that went into it, was a million dollar car. The Enzo may cost a million, but it's not a million dollar car.

As for historically significant and/or vintage cars that cost into the 8-figure realm, it's up to you whether you consider those values "worth it."

 

But the MSRP on the Enzo is 660k, but if you want to buy one right now it would be anywhere from 900k-1 million. The buyers who ordered their cars from the factory paid the MSRP, right? Its only if you want a car today and are not on the list, you would have to pay the million.

 

Yes. That is my point.

 

CRG, Your facts are quite twisted in alot of ways.

1. There are only 58 road going examples of the standard Saleen S7.
2. There will only be 50 of the S7 Twin Turbo's made till Saleen switches gears and brings out their next generation supercar.
3. No car is worth more than the COST of what it was to make it. Not even the CLK GTR cost more than $500,000k to build individually.
4. The S7R in FIA GT and ALMS, was heavily restricted due to regulations, and also lost alot of races due to that fact. And I seem to remember, the CLK GTR only competing for 2 years, before it was pushed out by rules that AMG was not willing to conform to.
5. Ferrari has won alot more than 5 F1 Championships, sounds like you are a follower of Shumacher, not Ferrari.
6. Ferrari has not competed formally in ALMS , FIA GT, the former WSC or BPR Endurance for 1 main reason. They can't compete. The last time Ferrari won with a factory effort is when they were still racing the open top 333SP in IMSA WSC class. And even then, after 2 seasons, they got embarassed by other teams stomping them.

For a car so prestigious as the Enzo, there sure are a hell of alot of them to be called RARE. The CLK GTR is another story, 25 regulars, 8 DTM versions, and 5 roadsters (1 for public sale), thats a rare car. The only thing dictating price on a Enzo, CLK GTR, Carrera GT, Bugatti, Lamborghini Murci, or any cars of that caliber is the name on the badge, thats it. It doesn't matter how much carbon fiber you use. It doesn't matter if the car makes 1001hp stock like the Veyron. It doesn't matter if the whole interior is stitched from Ostrich skin. The car is only worth what it cost to build.

BTW the way CRG, if I was ignorant and jealous, I wouldn't have driven an Enzo or CLK GTR. I know how to find bang for the buck.

 

thanks

 

OK...

 

DTV i was just messin with ya, relax ok.

 

For all of you who have read my comments, and are angry with the education I have given you. I am sorry. But I live in the real world. I collect hard to find Mustangs, and happen to be lucky enough to own an S7. I respect all cars no matter what shape and size, but I enjoy a challenge such as the one in this forum. I fight back with facts, not bais comments only a person uneducated about that subject would say.

BTW, please don't copy and paste magazine articles, speak for yourself. Magazines are paid by auto makers to glorify a certain car to make a jump in sales.

 

Think they're all pretty cool cars, and agree the S7TT will, once actual test numbers are released (in a magazine?!), probably have perf. per $ nod over the others referenced. Then, if it's all about bang for the buck, a Lingenfelter TT ZO6 will likely post #'s in the same zip code as the S7TT (and will negotiate the typical American driveway w/out much difficulty). But then, it's just a 'Vette, right? If so, does the "education" move another notch down the food chain? Or is it time to punt that pricey Saleen, phone Indiana, and save some more jack?

 

So where do you get your facts? If not magazines or articles and you say they are paid by auto makers, then what? If I speak for myself, than it is my opinion which I am giving you and you are giving me. At the end of the day its all personal preference and I think it is not fair for any of us to put down any of these cars. I responded to you in a defensive manner, because all you were doing was putting the Enzo and the CLK-GTR down. I give respect to whoever is trying to make the ultimate supercar and Saleen is one of them. Bottom line we do not know which is the best supercar, it comes down to opinion. They all achieve perfection in different ways.

 

This thread was started on a Ferrari website, by Ferrari enthusiasts and owners with the intent of glorifying the Enzo. You can't tell me, that me talking the Enzo or the CLK GTR down wasn't common knowledge or talk in this forum. The thread I see us posting on here, was designed for Ferrari owners to bash the Saleen S7 and S7 TT. Like I said, I enjoy all cars, but when I get the chance to set the record straight with a group of missinformed and uneducated people, then I will.

It comes down to one simple phrase or saying......You can dish it, but you can't take it.

 

Really?

 

been there, done that. give it up though because this issue can't be discussed or analyzed rationally here on the horsey board. i even had some new member with an old (but not meaningfully so) fcar asking for my being banned for taking your position. tread lightly.

 

A car is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. Period.

The market puts a premium on the Enzo, hence the current price is above sticker.

There isn't a premium on the S7 TT.

If anything, the arguement should be that Ferrari screwed up and priced the Enzo too low and left money on the table.

 

I am not worried about some Fcar owners whining problem because a car other than his was talked about on this forum. The threads shouldn't be started like this if thats the case. If they want to ban me, then thats their choice. But by banning me from this site, they would do so to other people with other cars, and might as well do it to people who don't even own a Fcar but are enthusiasts and fans, which is pig headed and stupid. Part of the Ferrari legacy is the thought of the cars being highly desireable, and hard to obtain. I entered in a constructive conversation, not a pissing match. I may own an S7, but I also like the Enzo, CLK GTR, CGT, etc. But under any circumstances, should someone downtalk a car or item they know nothing about, thats proving that a little horse, or a little bull, or a tri-star with a ring around it controls their minds. I might own a S7, and several Mustangs, and I prefer Ford derived or made vehicles, but that doesn't say I am bias to all cars when infact I like all cars, just not all the owners.

 

Now who's posting incorrect information?

 

Tenney, if I wanted to have my car in the stop more than on the road like an Old Jaguar, then I would buy a Lingenfelter 427 TT Vette. But in any case, I am not gonna spend $130,000 on a "CORVETTE". Thats like saying I am gonna spend $130,000 on a "MUSTANG COBRA". Not gonna happen unless maybe 1 exists. It might say Lingenfelter, and it might run 9's out of the Lingenfelter shop, but its a TUNER CAR, not a ground up manufactured car like the S7TT. And yes, Saleen is listed with the US DOT an NHTSA and NTSB as a Manufacturer even though they have just been a modifier for 18 years prior to the S7.

 

Guess you've never been around a C&D, MotorTrend or Automobile editor and photographer huh? 90% of car magazines do exactly what I said, because thats been common practice for them for years. How do you think they pay for the magazine people to travel to test those cars? Its not for fun, and its not Free.

 

I think your take on the Lingenfelter may be what's keeping an Enzo customer or two out of an S7TT.

Aware Saleen's a manufacturer. So's Ruf. Perception carries a fair bit 'o weight in these sorts of purchases - beyond performance #'s/bang for the buck - as you've noted.

btw, noticed in a prior post you're a Mustang fan. Seems a good Boss '9, and a good few Shelbys, might bring 130k plus, these days.

 

There are also a few Nissans, Toyotas, and other quite small time or non-big 3 makers that have a few vintage or classic cars they made in the 6 digit areas. Barrett Jackson just shows how obscenely a filthy rich person can spend their money on a car. Take for example, The 1955 Oldsmobile F88 concept car. That guy on there who owned the Enzo and a few other cars bought that F88 for $3,000,000 and he can never drive it on the street. To me, thats worthless. The car belongs in Museum with GM. Also, the 1962 Mustang I concept car went for $2.8 mil back in 1999. To me, value of a car, is in its driveability. The S7TT, Enzo, CLK GTR, CGT, EB110SS, etc are all very driveable cars for the above average driver. But pricewise, as I have said in previous posts, they are only worth the price it cost to build them. Just because it has a heritage shouldn't dictate price. When the S7TT for $500k can outperform an Enzo that sells for over $1 mil now. The prices are out of control. The only car ever made that is worth its price and development is the McLaren F1 LM. Even then, only 3 of those were made and are the most advanced road cars ever. As far as tuner companies who have become manufacturers, Saleen is the top of the food chain and have been established in a shorter period than 98% of the market was.