Enzo or F70 (LaFerrari) investment?? Enzo prices... | FerrariChat

Enzo or F70 (LaFerrari) investment?? Enzo prices...

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by TomKim, Mar 1, 2013.

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  1. TomKim

    TomKim Rookie

    Mar 1, 2013
    12
    Moscow/London
    Hi all! I'm very new to the forum and to the world of Ferrari in general. I've been a Porsche fan for my entire life and I currently own a seriously tuned 997 Turbo and a Carrera GT. The latter was purchased as a dream, as an investement and as a car to drive on occasion.

    Now, I am fortunate enough to have some money that I am willing to invest in the glorious brand, and if I am more or less confidently chose the models - I am not too confident on the timing of the purchase and the prices.

    I would love to own an Enzo and there is one on sale on mobile.de for M1.7 Euros, but only 30 miles on the clock. The price difference is very confusing in terms of mileage/year.
    Is that price acceptible or is it too high and I would be better off buying a cheaper one with say mileage in 8-15000km range?

    Buying an F70 is also an option.

    Buying a 288 GTO is also an option - but I think it's huuuuuuugely overpriced at the moment and I won't quite enjoy it as much actually driving it.

    Thank you for any advice you can give me, I truly appreciate it.
     
  2. Flo400

    Flo400 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
    357
    Munich, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    Some cars you are talking about are not easy to acquire and for others, mobile would not be the first place to look for...
     
  3. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
    12,282
    South East
    Full Name:
    Jimmie
    I'm sure if you view your Carrers GT is an investment you should in the first instance buy a 918 (perhaps having read the comparison thread here)
     
  4. TomKim

    TomKim Rookie

    Mar 1, 2013
    12
    Moscow/London
    As wrong as it may sound - I do not like 918's styling. The reason I'm inclined to Ferrari is simply - purity. I am not a fan of electric power steering. I do love the idea of a V12 roaring behind my back though very very much. That's the point..
    So where if not on mobile.de should I look for one?
     
  5. ace355

    ace355 Formula Junior

    May 23, 2008
    464
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Chris
    There are plenty of people that think F40s GTOs, etc are overpriced. I take that to mean if the price drops a bit, they are ready buyers, which also says to me the prices aren't backing up anytime soon.
     
  6. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 28, 2003
    9,992
    Rocky Mountains
    Full Name:
    Bastuna
    I have never heard of Ferrari's selling one of their supercars, like the Enzo replacement, to a first time Ferrari owner (other than the pope).

    The other advice that I will share is that none of the cars you mentioned are investments. They're cars. Enjoy them as such.
     
  7. Craigy

    Craigy Formula 3

    Mar 19, 2006
    1,679
    Louisiana
    Full Name:
    Craigy
    All of the superferraris are investment-grade, depending where you buy ;)

    So is a Carrera GT for that matter since they leveled off awhile back. However the 918 values will probably tank quite a bit.

    Light miles > no miles.
     
  8. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Pray tell what should be the correct price for a 288 GTO?
     
  9. George330

    George330 Formula 3

    Oct 19, 2009
    1,342
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    George
    A 288 GTO is no more overpriced than a California Spider, a 250 SWB or a Maclaren F1 at over 4 million dollars. Or even less -relatively-important cars such as a Countach LP400 Pericope car which regularly fetches crazy money

    I happen to think the classic car market is overpriced; the same happens with the wine market, the prime London property market and other low-production, low availability and highly collectable items. Low levels of interest rates for 4 years, plenty of money available from Emerging Markets and the lack of attractive investment opportunities have forced people into "real assets". Some of those real assets are also "tax efficient" in some tax jurisdictions, so people buy them to store value.

    However in order for the market to deflate you need a substantial rise in interest rates or a meaningful upward trend in financial markets, so that the supply of these cars in the market increases meaningfully. As long as there are only a couple of 288GTOs available in the market, the price will keep rising. If 25 come to the market at once, because their owners suddenly realize they're missing an investment boom elsewhere, the market will drop meaningfully

    The best thing to do is to buy what you like and not care about investment value. As a former 288GTO and Enzo owner I can tell you the 288GTO is the more memorable drive. You'd enjoy it enormously. If you buy an Enzo, I suggest you buy a car with 3,000 miles or so for 850-900k EUR. Lots available although their owners advertise for more. The UK is the place to look
     
  10. TomKim

    TomKim Rookie

    Mar 1, 2013
    12
    Moscow/London
    George330 - much appreciated, thanks!
     
  11. ramy85

    ramy85 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2012
    20
    Riyadh
    George,

    I think the classic car market has only started to appreciate. The anticipated demand from emerging markets seeking automobile investments is huge.

    If you didn't acquire before 2003, this next year may be your chance. It's all uphill from there.

    There's a bittersweet taste to not acquiring a car you desire during an optimum window. I still feel the sting of letting a few Daytonas and Miura SV's pass in 2001. The father had a '73 Nero Daytona and I would love to reunite them. Cars. They way they weave themselves into our dreams.
     
  12. ramy85

    ramy85 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2012
    20
    Riyadh
    If you have been invited by the factory to purchase the car directly by all means do so. I wouldn't know of anyone who has turned down the invitation to acquire, and would estimate that they are an extremely small number if not zero.

    If you haven't been invited by the factory, this is a limited edition 'invite-to-purchase' car. Moving into position to be able to acquire a secondary one will be costly, and will significantly consume any potential ROI.

    I'm assuming that the cars will have a 100% premium at release (as a highly conservative minimum) somewhere within the shadows of backdoor unsanctioned trading. For the rare and hushed numbers that will be flipped onto other buyers, the price will be stratospheric. You will be swimming with big fish.

    If you were interested purely in automotive investments, it would be wise to delve into the art and science of that world. It's a nuanced and specialized field. Sports Car Market is a good start. From an investment perspective, assuming a hefty entry premium in the secondary market, won't make the F150 the best of choices.
     
  13. joe sackey

    joe sackey Five Time F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    May 23, 2006
    57,288
    Southern California
    Full Name:
    Joe Sackey
    Nice write-up George.
     
  14. TomKim

    TomKim Rookie

    Mar 1, 2013
    12
    Moscow/London
    Ramy85, I must have mentioned from the start - I have NOT been invited by the factory - that's another dream I must admit) The thought was to repeat the story with ENZOs and buy it off someone second hand. But now after reading the comments I realize price will be off the scale of sensible. I have noticed similar thing to be happening with the Huayra - its actual price being 1.5 but some on sale for over 2m.

    Actually Pagani.....Pagani Pagani Pagani...people say different things, but I'll be damned if that ain't art. Sometimes I almost wanna say "there's Porsche, Lambo, Ferrari and THEN there's the Pagani" But I won't dare obviously, yet the Zondas are compelling in every sense from any angle.

    So far, I slowly but surely start to think of an Enzo as being THE ONE. I suppose I'm not that of a collector yet to fully appreciate the 288, but I'd Loooooooove to see the blood red machine to stand next to my Carrera GT..
     
  15. ramy85

    ramy85 Rookie

    Jul 29, 2012
    20
    Riyadh
    Dear Tom,

    I too dream of the Huayra. It's as if you whispered those thoughts out of my head.
    It is truly the craft of one man's love. The love of flight.

    They've added an exquisitely crafted Sonus Faber system and a market appropriate price hike to their cars. You'll see this one in Geneva:

    Sonus faber Sound System For The Pagani Huayra Debuts In Geneva

    The first Huayra delivered (a pearl white) was immediately (under)sold in the UAE at a 100% premium. Had the seller added another 100% to 150%, I think the premium would have reflected its true desirability.

    You can never go wrong with any of these beauties.

    I wish you utmost the enjoyment in your experience.
    Please do keep us updated as to your your search.
     
  16. TomKim

    TomKim Rookie

    Mar 1, 2013
    12
    Moscow/London
     
  17. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    #17 Bill S, Mar 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had the same feeling about the Enzo and CGT. They both compliment each other nicely at driving events and shows. I can drive the CGT a little faster on the very twisty roads mostly because the Enzo feels a little bigger and the CGT's engine and transmission feel a bit more responsive. But the Enzo destroys the CGT at high-speed events.

    [ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj5b7eGKUfk[/ame]
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Ryan S.

    Ryan S. Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 20, 2004
    26,625
    I think there is more than something to be said about the Enzo and GT being the last of an era before the hybrid super cars came online. This will def reflect on future price IMO.........
     
  19. Birel

    Birel Formula 3

    Sep 12, 2005
    1,877
    Brisbane
    Full Name:
    Andrew Turner
    #19 Birel, Mar 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    ZFFCZ56B000137340, 5,500kms. Please PM me if you have an interest.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,273
    TomKim have you ever thought about a 360 CS.? As we see, prices are continuously increasing. Why not. It's one of the greatest ''mini'' bombs an the feeling that you get is just...OMG.!
     
  21. TomKim

    TomKim Rookie

    Mar 1, 2013
    12
    Moscow/London
    #21 TomKim, Apr 4, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hooooray!! Everybody, a great dream has finally come true! With help from my dear Edo Karabegovic from Edo Competition, a beautiful and flawless car, red on black, was located and purchased from a collector who wished to remain incognito.

    I cannot describe how happy I am and how much I wait for the warmer of days to finally get behind the wheel and drive that masterpiece, oh what masterpiece it really is. It's beyond me. Happy Happy Happy!

    P.S. I have used the word "keeper" in the titile, and that is exactly the feeling that I have. Right after payment was settled I suddenly thought of myself now having a new responsibility that I am so happy to accept - to look after a part of automotive history, the most beautiful Ferrari of all time. Except the 288 ;-))))

    Guys, thanks for all the advice and personal experiences with both cars - it was a tough choice, but I've made the right one.
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  22. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Stunning!!! Enjoy her in good health!!!
     
  23. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    Congrats on your purchase! A nice touch that they went all in with the polarizing filter on the first picture, and then forgot to remove the wheelbarrow in the background... :)
     
  24. mpowered

    mpowered Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2008
    588
    United States
    Full Name:
    You Know Me
    nice car! wow.
     

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