Engine value

I don't think that they are equal questions.

A car with a non-matching engine will ask for a discount when being sold.

Any old engine, say a 250, has a certain value. But the value of that engine could change an enormous amount based on its serial number. A GTE serial is worth a good deal less than an engine for an otherwise perfect Testa Rossa that's only missing those four digits.

Or: the alternative to a non-matching numbers car is a matching numbers car. But to a guy who has, say, Lusso s/n 3409, there is no alternative to an engine with "3409" stamped on it. If he really wants it.

Matt

 

Hello Ed,

These days are quite insane. I heard of 150k eur to swap the engine of an early 250 for the correct number but needed a complete overhaul. I think a 275 GTB with incorrect number is about 200k euro less in price on the current market. If you can find the original engine theoretically it is worth 200k but I doubt if people want to spend this. You don't know the "original" engine and you never know if it also will pay itself back.

I am not sure about transmissions but as this is not the chassis number I think it is much less if any.

Ciao
Oscar

 

What about the classiche cars with literally new engine blocks made then assigned to the chassis number?

 

Surely many of these cars with matching engine numbers have had the old incorrect number machined off and been restamped?

This process would be a piece of cake for a machine shop ...
Pete

 

You would need to know the correct numero interno to do a thorough job.

 

Not correct. To restamp an engine block where the result is close to factory is almost impossible. This comes from one of the best known Ferrari engine builders in the country. Biggest problem is to get the right size and shape to the numbers. Than it's the depth of the stamping that's difficult to get right. Than there is the fact that you don't get many chances to get it right.

Geno

 

A tricky problem to be sure but considering the payback, it would not be unreasonable to custom-make a proper stamp.

 

And practice on something else till you get the technique down.

 

Exactly. A human being stamped them originally so another can replicate it now.

I find it amazing that so many Ferraris have their original engine. Either they are amazingly reliable and well maintained or surely some wool has been pulled over a few eyes in at least a few cases. Especially considering these cars were (or should have been) used hard when near new and when something goes wrong at 6,000rpm a big hole is often made in the block!
Pete

 

I think the difficult bit would faking the numero interno as this is stamped on to unmachined cast aluminium.

Making stamps with the correct font is not difficult these days.

 

Interesting question and I think the perceived value of a matching number engine or trans would be related it would be a proportion of the value of the actual car. I'm GUESSING 10-15% for the engine, 4-6 % for the transmission.

 

IMO...... and what I've seen in the past few years.

Engine:
Lusso : 250,000 E
SWB : 500,000 E
1950's racecars : 500,000 - UP.

Knock in value : Lusso : 300'000, SWB : 700'000

Gearbox: L= 50'000 SWB: 100'000

each component adds up, could be more, depending on the cars history. for non-driver owners ( and ''Funds'') , bragging rights on ''match-numbers'' exceed the ''my girlfriend's a virgin value''. Many oohhs and ahhhhs, but once driven....

The matching number stuff narrows the playing field now on the new buyers emerging. These ''formula'' purchasers are ruling the traffic now., are usually non-drivers and select like a ''bank-product fund'', ticking the boxes and not understanding all that makes up a used race car.

I've bought an entire car to obtain one component piece, more than once.

Was offered a 250 engine last week, for $125,000 - seemed a bargain, in the crate restored. GTE number - and a 300S Maserati engine for 500'000 - )

 

Agreed. I've seen a (non-Ferrari) block that has been repaired after a rod made a hole and you could not tell where the weld was, it just looked like a cast block.

Onebugatti,

I find the comparison between a woman's virginity and matching numbers weird, especially the comment about once driven. Driving a car with matching numbers does not change the fact that it is still matching numbers.

Surely also you mean ''my girlfriend was a virgin when we met value'', otherwise was she ever really your girlfriend ... lol
Pete

 

We had a customer pay a cool million dollars for the correct matching number motor for his pontoon fender TR, and it was worn out and needed a complete rebuild.

 

What do you suppose Tom paid for the Lampredi motor for the Ebay car?

Thats a rhetorical question. You might know and I'm not looking to stick my nose in.

 

Didn't somebody swap a fully restored 50/60's TR for a worn out/wrecked 50/60's TR needing a complete restoration but this TR had won Le Mans. Makes perfect sense to me. If you are going to get excited about old cars it is their history that makes them interesting and valuable. Who wants a perfect old race car that achieved little compared to one that won Le Mans!
Pete

 

makes perfect sense if it increases the value of the car by say 5 mil or more..