With my 348tb safely tucked into the garage for winter, I'm looking at what would be nice to improve before it hits the road again next spring. The last cambelt change was about 4 years ago, so 'officially' it's due for replacement, though I think it could wait another year or so since most seem to do it every 5-6 years rather than 3-4. But it got me thinking: what if I do the cambelt now, and do it thoroughly, cleaning and revising the engine, clutch, gearbox, and improve some bits in the process. What if I could gain some performance to give it a bit more of an edge? I've read a lot about possible upgrades. Basically, if you want big power (400+hp) you need a turbo or super charger. However, that would be ruining the engine's NA character in my opinion. Also, I don't need that much power, I've got that need satisfied with another car. What I would like: More revs - it's fantastic to rev it out and I feel there's more left at the top end. Currently, max. revs are at 7,750rpm, would be nice to be able to cross 8,000rpm. Better engine response. At lower revs I've got a feeling there's some inertia to overcome, while at higher revs, it loosens up. Crisper, more consistent shifts. I know the 348 gearbox isn't like the one from a Honda, but still, it occasionally feels nice and smooth, which I think it should feel more often - perhaps just a matter of taking it apart and revising/rebuilding it properly. More power: 350-400hp The 'hardware' for doing upgrades I see mentioned a lot: Titanium conrods (Carrillo?) Forged pistons (Mahle?) Modified intake (intake from the F119H engine?) Bigger throttle bodies (or ITB?) Bigger injectors Modified exhaust ECU tuning My car already has a Tubi style exhaust and Larini sport cats. What I'm wondering now, is what parts would have to be on my shopping list to achieve my goals? And for which part of the job would I need to seek specialist tuners? In my capacity of 'armchair expert' I would say my garage can perform most of the work, with the ECU optimization done at the end by tuning experts. But my knowledge is limited to what I read online. I would be very interested to hear first-hand experiences from owners having ventured into similar projects
Correct me if I’m wrong, but the 348 ECU will need to be tuned by swapping EPROMs, right? Finding someone to do that will be a challenge.
My 348 has the Bosch Motronic 2.7 ECU. I don't know if the EPROM needs to be swapped, and if so, the difficulty required. There's a very good chiptuner near me (Squadra Tuning) who has experience with older ECUs, so I can ask him. But there also seem to be different options, this thread also talks about piggybacking or swapping in a F355 ECU or something else entirely: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2-7-motronic-tuning-source.423641/
That's on a 355. Here is the chip swap. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/348-ecu-removal-chip-removal.351819/ Not sure what pistons and rods will give you. Bigger injectors, port the TB's, variable fuel pump and chip tune with exhaust is about it. But the chip tune is tricky as it has to be done off the car you cant flash it on a dyno like modern cars. Short of that add aftermarket EM like a link and tune away. There are threads on porting TB's and swapping injectors and FR's out here.
It starts out about the 355 but later on in the post the 348 is also extensively discussed. Apparently, members on this forum have various maps for the 348, so that might be interesting. However, when stuff like injectors and other 'hardware' is changed, I imagine you'd have to make a new map anyway. I'm going to contact some specialists near me, see what they can offer. Thanks for the input!
Yes, I've seen this! It's absolutely awesome, but I found some more info and it strays rather far from the original. If I remember correctly, you have to rework the engine hood because that won't fit anymore. You also have to use custom designed airboxes and exhaust parts. Not to mention you need a custom ECU. Here are some pics of the actual thing: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/the-naturally-aspirated-400-hp-348-yes-for-real.511097/ So that's a bit rich to my tastes, even though I admire the workmanship involved.
Your talking titanium conn rods and pistons, buckle up cause your going to cross that money boundary quick.
Better response is going to require a perfect tune and bigger throttle bodies, or individual throttle bodies. Adding 250 RPMs to red line will not bring much power all by itself (10-15 HP) Throw in an F355 gear box (and sub-frame) if you want the shifter to be "better". In my opinion, Titanium Conrods would enable a 9,000 RedLine This, in turn, will require; a) shorter intake velocity stacks, b) shorter (and larger OD) pipes in the header c) more degrees in the camshaft (new Duration = old Duration +25 degrees) in order to get maximum advantage of the parts in the list above, you will also need:: d) higher compression (around 11.5:1) e) at least 3 hours on a dyno tuning the engine mappings f) probably ITBs g) custom Helmholtz resonators h) velocity stacks optimized for the new RedLine. i) and of course you need to port match every part of the air flow through the engine.
OP it would probably be cheaper to stuff a 355 engine and gearbox into your car than to heavily modify a 348 engine with a custom build. The slope is incredibly slippery. Why put Ti rods on a 348 when the 355 came with them from the factory? Etc etc.
Fuel delivery is absolutely maxed out on the F119 and especially the H. Waste of time messing with the existing fuel/ECU setup. You'll need to improve the intake system, fuel system (injectors) and go to a aftermarket ECU and then get it tuned by someone who knows what they are doing. Be prepared to spend lots of $$$.....
And have it run like crap at some point in the rpm scale. Sent from my SM-G990U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Many thanks for the input so far! I think the car should remain somewhat original, so the wilder stuff like the OMD plenum or putting an F355 engine & gearbox in it, would be going too far for me. The ECU sounds like the bottleneck for upgrades. Getting serious about the internals, ie. Ti rods, different cams etc., would inevitably mean buying, installing and tuning an aftermarket ECU - at least, if you want to really benefit from these parts. Also, messing with the internals seems like a slippery slope. I don't have intricate knowledge of timings and clearances, I'd have to rely on someone who really knows what he's doing - not only not accidentally destroying anything, but knowing what will provide the desired gains. It seems less risky and expensive to focus on intake & exhaust, which as the OMD plenum demonstrates, can provide a fair amount of extra performance. So that got me thinking along the lines: Fabspeed headers: https://www.fabspeed.com/ferrari-348-sport-headers/. Dyno tested to provide an additional 24whp (so +/- 28hp at the crank). F119H plenum. The newer plenum is bigger and the main reason GTB/GTS cars could deliver 320hp vs 300hp. I checked the parts diagrams and the other parts all have the same numbers so should fit without issue. K&N air filter. Someone dyno tested and found that no filter delivers 10hp more vs. stock and K&N is 5hp more. When above is fitted: ECU remap/dyno testing by a specialist. In short: optimize intake & exhaust and tune the ECU to get the greatest benefit from this. People spent a lot of time optimizing the intake, like putting 355 TBs on it (so ITBs): https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/355-throttle-bodies-on-348-project.125988/ or adding in 360 (and 355?) parts: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146918698/. The 355 TBs didn't fit under the bonnet and as far as I could tell, didn't really work out in the end in terms of actual gains, the 360 option looks like a lot of custom engineering, but I'm not quite sure what parts exactly are involved and how it was done. Therefore, the F119H plenum seems to me the option where it still looks stock but offers an improvement. Also, it could perhaps be ported and polished for bigger gain, and if it doesn't work out, it's just a matter of swapping back in the old plenum.
You'll need new FPR's if you dont have the 3.8 bar ones. That means new fuel lines. Sent from my SM-G990U using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I highly doubt it. The fuel system on the car is maxed out, you might get something but I can't see how a fuel system pretty much on its max duty cycle could produce much more power if at all. It might give you some more torque, but no more power. I believe the F119H gets more power from a Higher compression ratio (10.8:1 as opposed to 10.4:1), increased fuel pressure (as injectors are at max duty cycle already), different cam profile, and no doubt a few other things I missed. So with Ferrari doing all of this, and getting 20 more horsepower, makes the Fabspeed header horsepower increase seem unlikely. This is what I would do. I would add adjustable Fuel Pressure regulators. Toss the factory ECU's in the trash and replace with something like a Link G4 ECU. Fit the F119H intakes. Fit some modern injectors around 350-ish cc's. Get it dyno tuned. You might be surprised at how much more power you get. I haven't done it yet, but I am doing it when I have the time. Forget ITB's. I have done a few race engines with ITB's and they are a PIA to set up and you also wont be able to use a Map sensor, you'll have to use TPS exclusively. The 348 is not lacking that much power, it would be nice for it to be a little more lively, but they are still a fairly quick car for what they are. If you are focused on it "having" to have more power, you might want to look at a 360 or something like that. Even after driving a few 355's I find they aren't that much faster than a 348 and they have nearly 380hp.... I appreciate the 348 for its overall drive-ability, the way it handles and the way it communicates with the driver inputs, they are a brilliant car to drive and every time I take mine out for a drive it always impresses me....I wouldn't get too obsessed with trying to make it a "better" car....thats why I haven't exactly rushed out to put the aftermarket ECU on my car, I will do it but its not the be-all and end-all... Yes there is that twin turbo 348 conversion, but that is a special case and would have cost as much as the car to achieve I imagine........ My 2 cents....
Completely agree, as I said in my initial post, I'm not looking for 'big power', but just crisper response and a bit more up top. I also have the impression the 348 (or at least my 348) is still able to pack a punch. Last summer, on the straight at Zandvoort, I drove alongside a 360 Challenge Stradale, full throttle, and we were both surprised the old 348 could keep up, even gaining slightly (I think the 360 driver short-shifted somewhere, but still). Interesting you'd not recommend the Fabspeed headers. This post seems pretty positive: https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/the-stooges-install-new-fabspeed-348-headers.490505/ I was looking at new headers earlier and then looked at mine, the OEM ones, they said 'ANSA Marmitte'. Well, that's a quite well known and respected brand, so I figured a swap would probably not gain much. Until I saw that Fabspeed dyno sheet, which looks impressive for a set of headers. I'm very interested in your approach. I'm going to talk it over with a chip tuner I know, and my garage, see what they think
https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/my-1995-348-spider-with-fabspeed-headers-dynod-today.578902/ 10hp and that's a Dynapak which is for more optimistic that others. Also It's a design 4:1 versus 4:2:1 design. Pretty sure the sound will be different. Be carfull about picking mods that add 10 hp and picking 6 of the then adding up the total expecting 60hp. If you install all of them and you'll still get just 10. If you want power add a turbo, this is sort of silly trying to get blood from a stone here.
Has fabspeed not posted dyno plots of their headers? They’ve posted other results here. Also, I doubt the injector DC is maxed out along the whole rev range. Maybe headers make power somewhere other than top end?
Yes they have. But vendor numbers are always need to be taken with a grain of salt. More torque than hp but you gain some here loose some there. I'd listen to a car with that header design installed before buying and installing myself. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/dyno-results-on-the-348.422335/
Oh, no. I think all those Fabspeed parts sound awful. I was initially going to go full-fab speed. My good friends live in Fort Washington and I like supporting American-made. But dang, I just couldn’t. They sound bad.
Oh, I am not saying I don't recommend them, I am disputing the power increase they claim. It is so easy to fudge a few things around on a Dyno to give the impression of more power.....great marketing strategy.
I have no doubt the duty cycle is almost maxed. In my experience of tuning lots of engines, the most you can expect to get from a 200cc injector (348's are 184-ish) is about 40-45hp per injector, maybe a bit more if you up the fuel pressure..... There were very limited options for electronic fuel injectors back in those days....look at the F40, two injectors per cylinder for obvious reasons...forced induction also changes things a bit...
OK, so I couldn't find separate part numbers when comparing my car with the F119H. I checked my manual to see what that says about fuel pressure and it states 3.8 bar. So it's the same, good news!
