Engine cut off oddness - Any ideas chaps? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Engine cut off oddness - Any ideas chaps?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by oofazi, Jul 7, 2013.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

Page 2 of 2
  1. oofazi

    oofazi Karting

    Apr 13, 2013
    71
    Salisbury UK
    #26 oofazi, Jul 9, 2013
    Steve,

    When I am with the car and the garage full of all my gear I can tell you the lead replacement details... So, do we think there is mileage in looking further into the mechanical advance on the dizzy.... or, do we think it's likely to be a fuelling issue... not fast enough in load to distributor and injectors, so pumps could need replacing, and/ or fuel filters are in need of replacement potentially... as the full engine slows up, not one half hesitant, the other dragging the lame bank along...

    The tank itself I referred to the whole car in the previous post, as these motors are not light little nimble whizz-abouts...

    Jerry,

    The fuel pump relays are all good, fuses good, car runs perfectly up to about 5500 but even under the throttle you can sense a miss and then it comes and there it is, it dies for a short time.... but leave the throttle, and goes straight to tickover, no problem at all...

    Geffen,

    I think there could be some truth in this but need to check when it was last fully serviced incl fuel filters.... I have to say, it would be less that 500 miles back, but has only done this mileage in quite a number of years....

    Thanks chaps.... plenty to be getting stuck into there....

    David
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,141
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #27 Steve Magnusson, Jul 9, 2013
    Yes -- (as the others suggested), you should confirm the ignition system is A-OK, before worrying about the fuel side of things. But you never answered if it was running perfect and suddenly went bad (something failed/changed), or, if it's just always been bad (maybe mis-assembled)?
     
  3. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 23, 2007
    8,496
    North Pole AK
    #28 Ak Jim, Jul 10, 2013
    If it was my car I'd put a fuel pressure gauge on it and then go drive it and see what the fuel psi is at high rpm under load.
     
  4. oofazi

    oofazi Karting

    Apr 13, 2013
    71
    Salisbury UK
    #29 oofazi, Jul 10, 2013
    Steve,

    the car has to my knowledge always been fine, runs perfectly on tickover and has a flexible range of revs when stationary, I am unsighted as to whether it was incorrectly running prior to my ownership as its been with a chap who 76 and rarely hit live Tarmac. My though on this is that it's something like ignition vs fuel but a simple fix due to the resting period of the car for the last 16 years - his ownership.

    I am not in possession of a fuel pressure reading set and as such will need to source from supplier if anyone knows where they can be hailed from....??? eBay??

    Thank you, I will check mileage the veh has covered from the last service with the fuel filters replaced.

    Thanks

    David
     
  5. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    #30 rustytractor, Jul 10, 2013
    Could it be as simple as built up crap in the tanks due to long term lack of regular use being sucked into and partially blocking the fuel filter etc now the cars being driven properly ?

    As of last saturday I'm getting similar problems with a big block Chevelle i bought a couple of months ago which was laid up for 12 years. Ran fine at first but is now stuttering and running rougher than when I first got it. Far more simple than the Ferrari as its just running a big Holley double pumper carb but the principle's the same - cars suffer if not regularly used and the more complex the car the worse this seems to be.

    In my opinion (for what it's worth anyway).

    Good luck

    Russ
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,141
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #31 Steve Magnusson, Jul 10, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
    Can you please make a more direct answer? While you personally were driving, has the car run perfectly at high RPM and high load? Yes or no?
     
  7. oofazi

    oofazi Karting

    Apr 13, 2013
    71
    Salisbury UK
    #32 oofazi, Jul 10, 2013
    To be honest, yes it could.... easily.... I will have to investigate that further on my return home....
     
  8. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #33 Highmiler, Jul 10, 2013
    I have been fighting the loss of the whole right bank for 3 years. At last I took the advice of SouthJersey400 and Tassie. I rewired the fuel pumps bypassing the OEM circuit board altogether. So far this seems to have fixed the loss of the right bank problem.

    It also has fixed my cold start limping issue. Because of this surprise I suggest you keep it simple and get full voltage to the pumps at all times. It could be the fuel starvation is being caused by voltage starved pumps.

    Greg
     
  9. oofazi

    oofazi Karting

    Apr 13, 2013
    71
    Salisbury UK
    #34 oofazi, Jul 11, 2013
    Hi Steve,

    Yes, the car runs perfectly up to around 5-5500rpm, from then the revs will fluff, miss, possibly backfire too, and die, but ONLY to tickover, it never stalls completely.

    by this rpm, it's running at around 75 to 80mph... anything over this I experience the fluff, miss, poss backfire then lose all drive from the engine, then engage neutral, see the rev counter fall to about 1000rpm, then pick up again...

    It's really very very odd, I have never experienced anything like it before on any vehicle...

    Even the TR6 is better behaved, and that is saying something...!!!
     
  10. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    #35 rustytractor, Jul 12, 2013
    Steve is asking if the car had this problem when you bought it or if the problem started afterwards e.g. was it fine until you filled up with fuel but not after, would it rev cleanly right through the rev range but then wouldn't etc.

    Basically he needs to know whether something has changed since you owned the car or if you inherited the problem
     
  11. Santos

    Santos Rookie

    Oct 27, 2012
    49
    New York, NY
    #36 Santos, Jul 12, 2013
    I'm very interested to hear what David has discovered in his trouble-shooting. The "backfiring" he's describing could certainly be ignition/timing related.

    These issues are one of the reasons that when I had a CIS car that I dreamed of going to electronic ignition with packs. Never did, though, I ended up swapping out the whole motor and ECU... which is not an option for a 400, of course.
     
  12. oofazi

    oofazi Karting

    Apr 13, 2013
    71
    Salisbury UK
    #37 oofazi, Jul 12, 2013
    Steve, RT,

    I have not experienced the antics with the car as if you can remember it was not running properly, only on one bank after swapping the fuse and relay it now fires on all cylinders.

    I have just arrived home tonight and after gently running the car for a good 20 mins on tickover, I was working on other things as the 400 has been sat ticking over, I replaced the offside indicator orange lens, which seems a bit push fit and assume it will stay there to me, so beefed it out with some heavy duty tape to stop errant potholes working it loose to be crushed in the likely event of it falling out.

    Now, with just under 65psi in the oil pressure department, I gently wound the revs up, this gave me a good idea if it was going to fluff and miss, at about the 5000, 5500rpm mark. It did not. I wound it up gently again to 6000 6250 rpm to find still, absolutley no problem with it whatsoever.

    I revs freely and rests just under 1000rpm and then the fans kicked in, thankfully, good news there... It has been exceptionally hot here in the UK and is 28 degrees at 2100hrs here so expected the heat to play a role in the fans arriving rather soon after I had wound it up.

    So, once I get it on the open road again, what do you think I should be looking for?

    It cannot be the digiplex rev limiter or it would surely have given some sign of cut off as I was very close to the red line...

    What is different under load with one of these engine as opposed to when running at stationary...?

    Thanks

    David
     
  13. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #38 Highmiler, Jul 12, 2013
    One difference is fuel demand.
    When running freely in park or in neutral little torque is required. When you put her into gear and run down the road more torque is required and that means more fuel is required. The faster you go the more fuel is demanded.
    If the symptoms persist change fuel filters and if they still persist, bypass the circuit board per SouthJersey 400 and Tassie's recommendation.
    Greg
     
  14. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,141
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #39 Steve Magnusson, Jul 12, 2013
    "Engine load - higher engine load increases (spark) voltage needed..." -- so if something is wrong, it can be OKish at light engine load, but a problem at high engine load (at the same RPM).

    http://hyundaiaftermarket.org/tech/SparkPlugs101.pdf
     
  15. Highmiler

    Highmiler Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2010
    414
    Missouri
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #40 Highmiler, Jul 12, 2013
    Thanks for that memory jog Steve!

    Here, in order of problems found and solved, is the history of my chasing the dead right bank issue.

    1. I discovered there was no carbon contactor touching the rotor at the center of the distributor cap inside. These carbons are wear parts but new OEM ones no longer exist. A new distributor cap transformed the engine's performance.

    2. The right side fuel filter was found to be half full of water and had not been changed since it left ther factory. New fuel filters were installed and no performance change was noted. But then, water will plug up the K-Jetronic and make it act very funny so change the filters.

    3. The air filters had never been changed either. No performance change was noted after replacing them.

    4. Three plug wires were found to not pass a continuity test. All new Taylor plug wires were installed and they transformed the engine's performance again.

    5. I finally broke down and ran fresh wires from the battery to the fuel pumps using a relay at the pump end and a 30 amp circuit breaker near the battery (per, SouthJersey 400 and Tassie) and the result transformed the engine's performance again.

    So the message is that there are several problems caused by old age and neglected maintenance that all contribute to these funny running issues.

    Hope this shortens the learning curve for you a bit,

    Greg
     
  16. oofazi

    oofazi Karting

    Apr 13, 2013
    71
    Salisbury UK
    #41 oofazi, Oct 13, 2013
    Chaps,

    A significant development has taken place with regards the cutting out of the car over last month or so. Two weeks ago I was required to take it to my local TRUSTED garage who are the most professional by a long way for the Saturday morning test. I started the car in the garage, let it run for a good 10 mins or so, then rolled her out to lock up and drive off. Now, I have done nothing to alter the firing of the car, apart from change plugs but did this before to correct the problem, but it had still existed...

    On taking the car to the garage, NO problems whatsoever, how very odd...It was glorious, took it up to approx 110mph, all warmed through working beautifully...

    Yesterday I ran her up, and on idling for at least 10 mins or so, I noticed the problem returned...

    Has anyone got any ideas from this perspective of cutting out, to working perfectly, to stuttering and cutting out again.... Can anyone shed any light on this intermittent issue (electrical?)...

    Thanks lads,

    David
     
  17. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    #42 It's Ross, Oct 14, 2013
    Have you done anything to check fuel pressure or changed out the filters?
    It sure seems to be starving for fuel. If it is backfiring through the intake when the problem occurs that is another symptom of this. Backfiring through some very expensive components I might add.
    You need to examine the fuel system.
     
Page 2 of 2

Share This Page