Early 1990s crash of collector Porsche and Ferrari values...how did it happen? | Page 13 | FerrariChat

Early 1990s crash of collector Porsche and Ferrari values...how did it happen?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by MonoSpecchio, Dec 11, 2015.

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  1. Super_Dave

    Super_Dave Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2014
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    Dave
    Paul, I have you on ignore. Three posts to follow mine? Please grow up.

    I flagged one of your comments buried within another topic where you called my posts "A$$hattery" ... rather than re-engaging you directly.

    You stick to personal attacks and attempts to act as some kind of gatekeeper against anyone who you perceive as attacking Ferraris or their owners. I don't mind counter arguments on why the cars are not over valued, or if there are views that speculation hasn't driven values too high. Civil discussion on that is welcome and appreciated.

    The sort of conversation you bring to the table, pandering to some and attacking others, is not something I enjoy engaging in.
     
    beng likes this.
  2. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Jul 1, 2013
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    #302 paulchua, Feb 9, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2016
    Dear sir,

    With the utmost respect and candor. If I may do without offense or umbrage toward you, and ask you to respond. Please accept my apologies for my immaturity, and I yield to you that I am a man-child. I hope however, this fact does not preclude you from answering my previous query: What car(s) were you not comfortable to obtain due to the false market & current bubble? Perhaps you were recently out bid of the all time record breaking sale of the 335s this week?

    Do you refuse to answer because it illuminates the crux of the issue?

    Is it because answering my question shows your true character? You asked why are people offended when people prognosticate a huge bubble exists? My thesis is simply this. It's not the point of view at challenge here, it is the intent. If one did not plan to acquire when prices was subdued, do not intend to purchase if there exists an attractive price today, and do not plan to obtain if a market adjustment occurs, one can only conclude your intent can only come from malicious kibitzing, am I wrong?

    Despite your attempts to single me out as the lone malcontent to your posts, there is a myriad of forum members that have thanked me and commended me for continuing to call you and BW out. I will continue to do so as long as you continue to disparage other members here for their purchase decisions.

    ttforcefed said it best.

    "The proper thing to do when somebody buys a Ferrari is to congratulate them"
     
  3. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    I’m bringing this back up because as I sit here tonight and look at eBay and other platforms, it seems like many cars that were purchased in the run up based on speculation, are still sitting, and still priced at unreasonable amounts.

    What happens during this stalemate?

    At some point, these dealers can’t handle waiting another 10-15 years for another run up, right?

    I got offered an UNFINISHED Vetro 308 last month for $250K. Today it was a project DB 2/4 RHD with an incorrect bonnet at $125K, and those are PRIVATE sellers.

    When does or will reality set in?
     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Grade A stuff is selling at strong prices. Sub par stuff isnt. Mint dinos are still over 400k.
    Dinos were the poster child for when the bubble bursts...

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  5. ewright

    ewright Formula Junior
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    Nov 17, 2003
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    To echo this point: I think that Monterey demonstrates that true collector grade cars are doing as well as ever, but the market has otherwise softened up considerably.
     
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  6. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Alpha and beta


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  7. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    Yea, but Ricky, what happens to the beta’s?
     
  8. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    same thing that happens in all other markets - they either sell because a buy and seller agree on price or they sit and collect dust or get driven. good thing about cars is they dont go to zero.
     
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  9. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    Lots of hurt feelings and wallets ahead for that crowd :0
     
  10. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    U think? Who cares? Whether a guy loses 200k on a dino or a gtc4 whats the difference?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  11. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Has anyone on this board or someone close to them really gotten hosed over the past 3 years? Wld be interesting to hear about first order experiences with specific entry and exit prices

    No interest in hearing about dealers etc as there job is to step on the gas when the tank is full. And dealers taking on too much risk is healthy for the market because it presents opportunities for new buyers with cash on hand.


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  12. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
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    Personally I don’t care. Just an observation. I think greed is ugly.

    I saw and dealt with it first hand from late 2012-2014. Utter insanity, but markets work like that.
     
  13. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Greed is good. It forces weak hands into selling, creates opportunities.


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  14. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    That is the risk one takes if pure speculation was the intent. The overwhelming sentiment among my friends is enjoyment, that is they don't look at value. They bought say a f355 or TR to drive, not as an investment. Afterall, we had NYSE: RACE for that, and one should have been rewarded like myself for that move.
     
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  15. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    For me, I follow what I know, or want...

    308s were destined to follow the Dino, sure...but it was way overbaked.
    512Boxers I have always loved, $75K was a good deal!
    $325K, not so much..but "if that is what it takes" then that's where you buy when ready.

    TRs have sailed like a kite off a string....but....

    Read recently an article he considered the Daytona the bell weather of Ferrari fortunes.
    But to me, every modern car starting with the 360 and variants almost forms another "family of Ferraris".
    Those cars are just paying market demand against depreciation.....

    Some win, some lose!
    I almost hate I have one 308GTB left, but to take to market is almost beyond me.
    My son really likes it!
    Forbid me to trade for a 360 coupe!
    Bossy!

    The 90s were not so much a crash as a correction. Everything went ape **** crazy when The Drake died....
    Not all of them were worth it.
    I wish I had been driving a BBLM since then!!
    :D :D

    I recall the Pioneer Car in Autoweek for $175K....
    A good deal!!! LOL!
     
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  16. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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  17. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    You see this EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

    Right now we're doing really well. Nobody wants to sell their toys and they don't have to sell. Just as in 2005-2007 nobody wanted to sell their Ferrari.
    They're going to hold onto the car until they can't hold onto the car. These 500 mile examples of 348's, TR's etc. Someone bought them at higher and higher prices until they didn't want to sell it at a loss, so they sat undriven in speculative inventory. You think someone wouldn't have bought it and driven it in the first 10 years if they could have for a cheap price?

    Just wait till the economy turns. It's the wannabe owners that stretched to buy the car that will sell. It always is. this time it might be the boomer that is seeing their healthcare costs increase and their stock portfolio cut in half. Nobody sells their favorite toy or top tier inventory until they have to. And I predict they'll be surprised by how fast the pool of buyers shrink.
     
  18. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    I remember the crash of 1990 very well. It started in January 1990.
    And today, a 250 Lusso, which used to be a 2 M $ car not long ago, is down at 1.3 M $ and still doesn't sell.
    I also see a huge amount of Financing lately. People don't learn. New generations. Always the same story.
    Cash is king.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  19. jjtjr

    jjtjr Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2016
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    john truskowski
    I feel that if you are in the "investment" camp, then watch the NYSE. When you see the signs of a correction coming....SELL your Ferrari! If you are in the enthusiast camp, drive and enjoy your car because life is too short.
     
  20. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    Nov 3, 2003
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    And it is a fast shrinking market pool, millenials have zero interest in cars, sports stars buy newer cars that basically sit and lose money, doesn't affect their portfolio. Save some cash now, be ready for incredible deals on the car of your dreams, buy it and drive/enjoy it.
     
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  21. Xtreme5053

    Xtreme5053 Formula Junior
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    Aug 20, 2006
    304
    Yup, those damn millenials and their zero interest...

    Sooome of us wanted to be race car drivers in kindergarten and lusted over Testarossas on our bedroom walls...

    We even started a rad new show that celebrates the cars of our era: https://www.radwood.co

    Also, we’re in our thirties, a timeframe that many before us took the first real step towards getting our dream marque.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  22. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 31, 2006
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    Thanks for the link... the best car shows and get-togethers are the ones that are diverse. Wish I was there.
     
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  23. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
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    The porsche market has continued to defy logic still somehow. 964 and 993 still has high asking while the other high production Italian retro is still cooling off. Nobody knows when the economic correction comes but man you are going to see some serious inventory when it does. There are a ton of 993 964 porsche, ferrari 355 etc. Just to name a few. That are still hoarded out there by uneducated speculators. They'll all be up for grabs when the bull run ends. There is already about double to triple the inventory available now. The "disappearing threads" during the run up were comical. It was as if everyone was certain that every 550 maranello, 355, 993 porsche was just vaporized overnight and all of a sudden an extremely rare collectible.
     
  24. Caeruleus11

    Caeruleus11 F1 World Champ
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    This is just not true. Millennials do have an interest in cars. Have a look at all the driving/ car games. Have a look at most of the photographers at cars and coffees- they are younger. Millennials and Gen Z love cars. Its just different. As it was with prior generations. Millennials are delayed in their consumer behavior though- thats the result of the great recession. If you want to see an example of people not learning, look at the overhang of student debt.
     
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  25. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    2 yrs later and pre 2013 cars are hot, again.
     
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