E90 and E85 fuels

Not pushing for it, you got it!

The worst to date is degradation of all the rubber components containing the fuel. The rubber sleeves and boots on the fuel pumps in the tanks and the rubber sleeves on the fill neck and vent tubes. After that we will see the fuel pressure regulators and the stainless braided fuel hoses begin to fail as a common occurance.

Cars that sit static for more than a few weeks at a time will be the first to show these failures. My research shows that the alcohol, and the water it absorbed, will seperate from the fuel in as little as 35 days. Starting the engine after this occurs with fill the fuel rails and injectors with a mixture of alcohol and water unless the car is driven to shake things up and put the mixtures back into suspension, injector failure is assured. For the snow belt cars this means looking for a fresh snow day once a month where the car can be driving around the block a dozen times before the sand/salt trucks come. Put a red X on the calander and look for the next day less than a month away.

With the research I have done while devoloping our fuel hose we also found a method to mold our fuel hose liner material into complex shapes for the in tank rubber components and the fill neck sleeves. The simple reality is it is extremely expensive to do that so that project is moving forward quite slowly until I know there is a demand for them. Until we build those I am suggesting removal of at least one fuel pump at each major service to inspect the rubber components. Catching this prior to that rubber being deposited throughout the fuel system is essential. NOTHING will take your breath away quicker than going around a right hand corner and seeing a plum of steam coming from the engine bay. When you pull over and then realize it wasnt a coolant hose failure but gasoline hitting the header from a failed fill neck sleeve... that WILL age you quickly, I know! Change or inspect them at each major service. The fireball that could have been generated from my first experiance of this would, without question, be deadly had it ignited.

I do not expect any mechanical engine problems from the fuel, those are all quite nicely over designed as they are. Failing Cats, O2 sensors, injectors and the above mentioned components are already happening and I have found no "Mechanic in a Can" that will prevent it. I do have a few Chemists that are working on that but there is too much variation in the fuels for any one product to work effectively thus I am focusing on building components that will tolerate the fuels we are and will be subjected to.

The 10% is an absolute maximum the old OEM components can deal with but even when that was the maxiumum allowable level we were testing and finding up to 16% at the gas pumps. At 16%, failure of brand new, off the shelf fuel hose occured in less than 15 mins.

One upside to all of this.... now that we know we will be stuck with hog food and pond scum for fuel.... I am finding areas where it is actually advantagous if I design components specificly for its use. The engine management systems and fuel system components were never designed or programed for this fuel.... Forget all about 14.1/1, that is long gone and will be only a topic in old text books. Now that I know how to contain this fuel I am working on components to take advantage of it in these engines. How I will get that past the Fed's in this new Nanny State mentality I have no idea but testing is now underway on these components and they show great promise.

Until then.... anyone driving a Ferrari without a minumum of a 2.5# Halatron fire bottle mounted INSIDE the car will be considered a player in the "nature weeding out the stupid" game. We will not go on a test drive with anything less than a 5 pounder.

 

AS a boater E10 has been wreaking havoc in the marine insudtry for quite a few years. Older vessels without metal fuel tanks the E10 will melt the petroleum based fuel cells. Nice. Also the heat genreated nby E10/E15 causes premature engine failures. Mercruser/Crusader, ect motors will NOT warranty any fuel that has more than 10% ethanol. SPot on to the last post about static fuel and water seperation. Alcohol absobes h20 and once the molecules seperate formt he gas, time for a pump out. I have not seen any additive that will rebond the molecules after seperation. There are some good marine additives that MUST be added when the fuel is put in the tank, don't know if they are recommended for auto apps. I can only image the failure rates going forward with E15. Thanks god for corn subsidies, eh ?

 

We should, as a country, eliminate ALL farm subsidies and pay the real cost of food at the grocery store, rather than a have the illusion of cheap food at the grocery store and pay the rest at tax time.

I have a number of relatives that live in Chataqua county Kansas, the poorest county in the whole country. They constantly blather about how high taxes are, how the welfare system is runninig the country into the gound, all the while every single one of them is getting a farm subsidy! Their inability to see themselves as on welfare is absolutely amazing.

 

Do a Google on Corn Futures..... once you get over that, search who owns all the alcohol refineries in the US. The oil companies (who I personally look at with respect, clever buggers!) now own near all of them.

Cash for Clunkers..... that proved a total flop soooo.... burn up all the old cars with the fuel being fed them. Wonder what the next round will bring when we find ways to actually burn this crap nicely in the older cars. Rest assured, there will be something.

 

I have read that the burning efficiency of the ethanol + gas isn't as good as normal gasoline so in essence you are buying an inferior product at the same price, paying more for the corn that is being used to make it, and it destroys are vehicles. Sounds like a bargain if you ask me.

Thank god for politicians.

 

You've used the wrong terminology -- you can only run E85 fuel in specially designed vehicles (i.e., "flex fuel" vehicles):

E10 = 10% ethanol
E15 = 15% ethanol
E85 = 85% ethanol

 

wow

 

Likely a dumb question but are there any brands of fuel that AREN'T 10% ethanol? I know Sunoco was one of the last but it appears that we're stuck with this problem.

 

It's more by individual station rather than by brand -- and in some places a station that can supply non-ethanol gas in the summer is forced to supply E10 in the winter, See:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=302449