Ducati draXter concept drag bike

A bit like Ferrari, MV are in a niche market (luxury sport bikes), with limited production.
I cannot see them becoming a big money maker.

MV is OK when it is part of an industrial conglomerate like Agusta, Mercedes, or Piaggio that can help it to shoulder the bad years, and not take too much of the profit in the good years.

Harley couldn't do much with MV first time around, and I cannot see them having more success next time.

 

I agree with most of this - the dealer network really screwed the pooch with Buell, never embraced. At corporate, much the same, especially when the "old guard" retired (e.g., Jeff Bleustein, the last of the execs to purchase HD from AMF, if you exclude Willie G., who never "ran" the company).

Once Ziemer, then Wandell took over, it was curtains for Buell. I loved the Buell bikes myself, I really like the Sporty engine, but it's not everyone's cup of tea.

I do agree that HD probably doesn't know what to do with MV, because they don't really know what to do in growing the business. They have a long relationship with Porsche, perhaps they should hire Wendelin Wiedeking or Porsche Consulting to help them. I thought the Cayenne was a mistake, yet it helped keep them afloat - Harley needs to replicate that. The Street 500/750 and the V-Rod aren't the answer.

We may disagree on the approach, but I think it's clear - they need to do something. Maybe they follow KTMs lead, get into off roading, I don't know. But clinging solely to the cruiser class doesn't seem like a good strategy for the future.

 

Harley should have looked better after their customers, and develop their bikes to attract new ones.
Technically, the Japs have overtaken them in the cruiser class.
I tested a few Jap cruisers, and found them often better to ride, whilst their owners were happy of their good reliability too.
I did stick with Harley mostly by snobery, it has to be said. A Jap cruiser never felt the part, IMO. I liked the HD badge. Call me vain !!!

But now, Victory and Indian (same owners) are tapping in the same customer base with very attractive products. I could be tempted by the latest Scout ...

As for a make shrinking and going out of business, well, it's part of the risk.

 

Hey - I like the HD badge too!!! I grew up on it!!

I do like their Livewire project - Harley-Davidson LiveWire First Ride

That's a step in the right direction. Still think they need a Euro sportbike.

 

So do I; it looks the part.

But like anything electric, it's limited by its short range. So, no appeal for me.

When battery technology improves and starts providing vehicles with a reasonable range and short recharging time, I will switch like a shot.

In between, nothing on offer tempts me yet.

 

Xr1200 was at best uninspired. Trying to be a sports bike with a bad motor too heavy and ugly.

 

Thats a great looking bike.
The Harley peopel just dont understand how to do a non lardass bike.

I have a sportseter 48. had to move the controls to mid controls so you could actualy ride it. A power comander and intake sorted the power deficit. All it really needs now is decent forks an non bendy fame some good brakes and decenbt rear shocks. The you have your modern vincent. As it is, the bike is now great to ride.

They dont need to do a sportsbike, sportsbike sales are in decline anyway, cruisers are tapped out. Harley just needs a good handling stylish sportseter, somehtingn vincent or cafe racer inspired. I grew up with Japanese bikes, nakeds and sportsbikes. A harely naked for what of a better term, one that handles and brakes well, inspired by vincent would be a good seller. Harkey have charisma and with few mods are more than fast enough, but forward foot controls minimal suspension travel and crap brakes makes them hard to be taken seriously.Look at the BMW R9T. The young dont really buy sportsbikes, its stylish hipster nakeds, look at all the custom bikes on bikeexif. Harley has the pieces they just lack inspiration.

 

I don't see VAG letting go of Ducati any time soon, even with the diesel debacle.

 

So first off, my HD to buy Ducati window has long passed, as Ducati was acquired by (and seemingly thriving under) VAG. If I misrepresented that, my bad. It's past tense - not happening now.

However, when Ducati was struggling, HD brings needed capital plus the knowledge of running a strong dealer network. I don't know how many of you are in the motorcycle business (I'm not), or even care about it (I do), but Ducati's dealer network in the US nearly collapsed because they didn't know what they were doing. My local Honda dealership was aligned with Ducati, and they dropped them because it was a **** show. I'm sure VAG can help there, but they are in the auto business - many similarities but still different.

For HD, at that time, it was a good match. Obviously, HD agreed as they acquired MV Agusta, and at one time owned Holiday Rambler (which was run as a separate division). The minute HD pulls an adjacent market product under their fold, it's TOAST (see: Buell). NEVER GOING TO WORK.

Therein lies the problem - you can't be half-pregnant, and that's what HD wants. But if you are frozen with fear, and DON'T act, there will be a point where it's too late (history shows this in business and in geopolitics)...they are getting close.

Doesn't need to be a sport bike per se, but they need to diversify. Whether it's jet skis, scooters, RVs - they need SOMETHING. The LiveWire is a nice start, but to hang your hat solely on an electric bike revolution isn't enough.

As I've said before - don't take my word for it. The analysts are ALL saying the same thing, and they've been saying it for years. HD knows it. I'd like to think after 25 years of PLM / Marketing / Product Development, and a lifelong motorcycle enthusiast (that includes the business of the industry), I'm not far off the mark.

The late Andy Grove wrote the book - "Only the Paranoid Survive". HD clearly didn't read it.

 

Don't need to do a sport bike, but they need something that isn't branded "HD". I think a lot of folks here are either too brand loyal or don't understand the demographics of who buys a Harley. It's either a "RUBbie" or a hardcore type, but it sure isn't the 20 something. I don't care if HD purchased a Yamaha YZF-R1 and re-branded it a Sportster - NO ONE IS BUYING IT!!

I've owned 4 Harleys over 25 years, I love the company and the bikes. This is not "red mist", I'm talking frank, as a business person and something that has at least a basic understanding of Marketing, they can't simply expand their current lineup, or even do something "in house".

The younger set has rejected them. They need to diversify or they will erode to being a bit player. The market trends have showed a slow decline for HD, they already know they are in trouble.

 

What lessons from Holiday Rambler? By all accounts, a complete success. They sold it for less than they paid for it, but owned it for about 10 years and was profitable, adding about $100M/yr in contribution margin. When the Holiday Rambler started to become a drag on earnings (the market was softening), HD did the smart thing and sold it off.

 

As mentioned earlier the 500/750 models introduced a couple of years ago are their attempt at diversifying. At least the US and Canadian examples are built in KC, but as I understand it the rest of the world gets bikes made in India to avoid steep Indian imports taxes and hopefully sell a ton of them in that region.

With my own company's experience, if you want to sell in India you have to make it in India, seems Harley is at least doing the right thing in that respect.

But the Sport 750 and 500? Honestly...junk. Aside from the name on the tank I don't see why anyone would want one. The 500 reminds me of a Honda Ascot, a machine 30 years old and possibly better engineered.

Without turning this thread into a Harley bash, these two models are never going to save the company in North America at least. Maybe a few thousand upwardly-mobile Indians will see it otherwise. Can't afford the Heritage Softail they really want, but the Sport 750 will be a nice stepping-stone toward one.

A few years before it was eventually shown to the public, I had heard about the Harley Penster concept and how cool it was by a couple of people within the company. But what happened? Can-Am, that's what. They beat Harley to market by a model year and even though the original Spyders looked like snowmobiles with wheels while the Penster was pretty darn sexy...Harley killed the project as they didn't want to be seen as following anyone. Stupid move IMO. I wonder how many aging Harley owners have since switched to Can-Am, they don't fall over because your trick knee goes out or you have a back spasm.

All Harley has now is a factory trike that looks like every other Harley or Goldwing conversion made in the last 30 years.
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Great post, agree with all of it. This type of product is what they need to launch, that would have worked under the HD brand. Looks very cool too.

Just so others know - I'm not HD bashing, I love the company and I love the products. Their results, and the market / demographics simply show they need to evolve, and they aren't doing that fast enough.

By the way, the "Lil" John Buttera prototype was AWESOME: http://thekneeslider.com/harley-davidson-penster-tilting-reverse-trike/

 

That was awesome! Very different sound from the Harley drag bikes (although sound on the vid wasn't great)...I wonder how a desmo valve train holds up with that much power / revs?

 

I believe that racer has factory support. He's been around awhile, and was running a bevel-drive engine until fairly recently.

Would be great to see more of them over here!