Dry vs wet sump

Others here will do a better job, but here goes ...

Dry sump replaces the usual "deep" oil sump under the block with a small collector that allows the bulk of the engine's oil to be held in a separate "off-block" oil reservoir. The use of a dry-sump prevents a number of problems occurring under extreme driving conditions, such as (i) uncovering the oil pickup-pipe during hard cornering/braking (leading to air intake & immed engine damage), and (ii) movement of oil up the sides of the block during the same manoeuvers (leading to crank journals hitting oil, cyl walls getting over-oiled, etc.

Basically, by removing the large swimming-pool of oil below the engine you can manage the oil system's performance a lot better.

I think it was dropped for price reasons (like most other good ideas!).

 

In addition, the dry sump system allows the engine to be mounted much lower in the chassis for a lower center of gravity, and the oil is cooled more efficiently when it is held in a remote tank.

One reason that the dry sump system isn't used much in the USA is that there is simply no room for the tank under the hood of a front-engined car. There are probably also issues with crash protection of an oil tank in the front.

 

don't tell chevy that, the new vette is dry sump.

All 911s are dry sump

I think the question is why did ferrari send '76 308s the europe with dry sump and wet sump to the us? The answer is almost certainly cost....they already had to add the DOT bumpers, lights, window all driving up the price and would mis their target if they kept the dry sump....and I expect that with the US 55 mph speed limit, they figured we didn't need it anyway. They dropped it from all 308s the next year, again I suspect cost.

 

Mark is the maximum speed limit in the US really 55

 

No.. It hasn't been 55 for about 15 years now. It varies by region/state/roadway. For the most part, 70 mph is the highest you'll see in the eastern United States.

 

Its a matter pf personal preferrance but I prefer a wet hump.

 

Actually, they continued to produce the dry sump on all Euro GTB's (FG as well as steel),but never on the GTS, until the introduction of the injected cars. Mine is a 1980 GTB, dry sumped.

 

308 GTB/GTS wet sump engines also go to Australia and Japan, it's the same engine like 308GT4

 

I suspect there are various explanations. Clearly, a WS is simpler and cheaper and some component re-positioning is required for the DS which would be more complex with the air pumps et al found on US spec cars.

 

Shows what I know, I had no idea they made so many dry sump cars.

So:
1976-1982 euro GTB dry sump?
1980-1982 euro GTS dry sump?

 

Not sure if Euro dry sumps went past 1980...

Afire?
8valve?

Basically all the US are wet sump, with associated oil pressure problems in high speed sweepers...no big deal, over fill by two quarts and rave on!

I watch the gauge if running at Indy though.........

 

We did nor preface this discussion with the clarification we are talking about Ferrari 308GTB/S V-8 engines here!

But I think most of us are! LOL!

Don't mention the Vettes,or we'll end up in Off Topic!!!!

 

I'm sure the US market didn't get the dry sump so Ferrari could make more money on the car, but judging from my own early '77 fg euro car w/dry sump, there is no way the air pump would fit, and it looks to me that even the second distributor would be tight. Remember, euro cars had single distributors, the duals were added so Ferrari could retard the timing with a microswitch at idle for emissions control. This requires 4 sets of points (two for each bank, two for each timing spec), which wouldn't fit in a single distributor. Euro cars have two sets of points, one for each bank, period- no emissions junk. They are also significantly faster.
The dry sump is a really nice thing to have- some price guides even list the dry sump as a $5k add on the price of a 308. Seems like a lot to me, but when I was looking for a 308, I was only interested in a Euro glass B with a dry sump motor- maybe a lot of others feel the same way. Hard to find, but light, simple, and fast.

Jon

 

Is it possible that it was left off of US cars because many of the owners at that time had absolutely no idea how to chech the oil, didnt care, and couldnt be instructed anyway? Seriously, so many of these cars have been so utterly neglected while ultra sound systems were installed, I can just imagine Ferrari saying to just remove it. I cant imagine much difference in cost when they are already making the parts and have them readily available.

Norwood claimed the dry sump was equal to a HP gain of 15 HP by keeping oil away from the spinning crankshaft, which may account for the 255 HP quoted for early 308's, and the 240 HP that followed.

 

Good point, about the points........

*groan from the audience*

I'd not compared the packaging between the two versions.......

 

All 911 (996) are wet sump. Only Turbo & GT2 are dry...

 

I think that Mark is referring to the fact that by far the vast majority of 911's ever produced are in fact dry sump- from 1967? probably until just recently-1999 or 2000. It is only a very recent thing (cost, probably) that 911's are wet sump. Certainly all of the air cooled 911's are dry sump. It is clearly the superior method of lubricating an engine.

Don

 

Well, if you read my post accurately all the info is in there:
Quote/Originally Posted by 8valve
Actually, they continued to produce the dry sump on all Euro GTB's (FG as well as steel),but never on the GTS, until the introduction of the injected cars. Mine is a 1980 GTB, dry sumped./Quote

I agree, my post is confusing.Assuming that you know that the injected cars were introduced from the middle of 1980 onwards, and that ALL GTS's are wet sump, we can now say that ONLY the Euro-market CARBURETTED GTB's had a dry-sump(that is 1976-1980)

 

hmm...it's off topic, but I think you are mistaken. The 2.7 I had and the 2.0, 2.4 and 3.0 my freinds had were all dry. A quick check of the road and rack found this about the 996 ".... the "integrated dry-sump" lubrication system has been further improved. As before, the main oil pump picks up lubricant from a central oil reservoir located just under the crankcase. "...it sounds like they run it like a dry sump with scavenging pumps, but have integrated the tank into the engine case...clever b*stards.

 

Thank you, that's a little more clear isn't it.

 

It's easy to find the difference between 308 wet and dry sump engines (but there are some more hidden).

Best regards,

AFire
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Hello,

great job with the picture description, but the single / dual distributor thing is no criteria. For instance; european 308 GTS have only one single distributor but are wet sump.
And be cautious with the oil filler cap. Recently I have seen a euro carbed 308 GTB ( drysump ) with an oil filler cap. Why this ?? Simply because sometimes in the past this engine suffered a cylinder head problem and they swapped the head with a replacement from a wet sump engine.
Another possibility is swapping the valve cover, besides the fact, that this is not recommended.

Best Regards

Martin

 

yes Martin, you are right !

Grüße

AFire