The same logic goes for the new F12M, these are not business investments they're made to enjoy and I think I will enjoy the Lusso more than the FF or I wouldn't buy one to be my daily driver. You lose big money on true luxury daily drivers of any make.
if you have the money to burn I'd go with the lusso. if you don't the FF is the way to go. one isn't right and the other isn't wrong.
I lost a good amount on the FF, the California before it and no doubt on the Lusso if I sell in 3 or 4 years which proves I'm either a complete idiot or in denial. Either way I can't wait to be mugged again.
Might be worth 250. Might be worth 200 as was the case with the FF. New is not better in this case, unless you like infotainment and 2 cup holders. I was very disappointed with the car's quality. And V8TT is coming to markets with V12s. Have you driven it? Spent time with it? I would not trade even for a new one. 140 is your guess. The FF is eventually going to gain ground. In 5 years that will be very clear.
What's your impression about The sound at high speed , i have spoken with a man that have already tested The Lusso and own an FF. He told that The gtc is a bit quiter at low speed but scream a bit more ( than The FF ) at high rpm. Are you agree Brian?
Start up and low rpm sounds a bit like my Capristo with X, deeper tone. High rpm pitch opens up more, gets loud. Not a high high tone like old F1, but again more like an aftermarket scream. Not the same to any out there but a good sound. So yes it's better than FF stock to stock. Yet... the car is insulated and more quiet, so you hear it less at any speed. And the ride never gets tight, so it never feels as much fun. Plus the real wheel steering is like learning a new language. Rather tricky for the proposed market. I was happy to be back in the FF where the rear end breakaway was predictable and it was fun, more road feedback, and sounded good at all speeds.
I have to disagree 100%. It's cheap looking and cheap feeling on the inside. The AC outlets are fine, but I prefer the FF design and look. The fonts on everything are ugly and do not work together well. Many of the switches feel as cheap as the outer door handle and door weight. Switch layout lacks refinement and elegance. No taste here at all. The turn signals are huge and require much more effort than before. Really clumsy and dumbed down for moms and such. The interior visual layout is a mess/overload. The new screens for vehicle dynamics also not as attractive. Leather is more normal in quality for any luxury car, 2 steps below the leather in my FF or in other high end marques.
Brian, what 's your opinion on the outside look of The car ? In flesh is better looking than from any pic or not? Thanks
Yes, it's much better in person. But does it look like a Ferrari? I'm not so sure. The rear end seems lower than the FF, as the main 2 horizontal lines are lower. The whole car panel metal is more flat, which to me is a bad thing on the hood in particular as it connects/wraps to the front quarters ... and yet this flatness looks smaller than the FF from a distance. Hood, Roof, FR and Rear bumpers are all flat, hides the size. Better or worse? Neither. Different. Just different. Except ... the front is terrible, worse than expected. Plastic everything is so obvious. And the black side skirts ... obviously plastic. With a texture and you can see how they mount by the wheel wells. So cheap. No elegance and crafty hiding of the plastics in the front and side ... and also ... something amazingly bad in front that SHOULD BE a deal breaker for anyone. I will put in the review. And the rear lights, look like a gimmick to me. Ironically there was a Corvette next to the Lusso and I snapped a photo. My main issue is that it's full of bells and whistles. There are "features" visually everywhere, like the interior "features" .. it's a car with features overload. A salesmans dream, but long term? No. Lacks integrity and the quality of materials, is down across the board. Even the mannetino itself ... cheap. Wiggles a bit, feels light, clicks over cheaply. The FF has better quality, feels hand made still. The metal is also cheaper/lighter, too but I'll save that for the long review I'm trying to wrap up.
Even if i will have my gtc4 next month i am agree with u that The front is not The best part of that car ... looking at The front lights, in my opinion, they have tried to do IT similar to ' La Ferrari ' , but with a poor result. Hope i will change soon this opinion ! Because of The not best proprtions of The front i have decided to don't go for the cristal roof because , in my opinion, The car looks much better without ( moreover if it is white like mine ).
I think the pano roof is mandatory, for others to enjoy the view. But hey, it's your car The front lights have a couple of weird shapes going on, the strangest one is at the top inside (closest to the hood and windshield) ... crazy little curve there that makes no sense.
Brian, your comments, while entirely your prerogative, are so distant from my own view that it's actually beginning to be a source of amusement for me! I haven't driven the car so I can't comment on that yet but I have seen multiple examples and spent a good few hours with the car in total. The appearance I have already said I prefer strongly. As for the interior and general quality, the Lusso is ahead of the FF in so many areas. I just don't know how you can really say it is poor quality and worse than the FF?! The FF has beautiful leather and an absolute knockout ambience. The Lusso goes a step further and improves on some of the things in the FF that I hadn't realised were any kind of issue until I saw the new car. Or do you think Ferrari are trying to save a few quid (and it would only be a very few...)? The seats are a good example. The FF front seats are nice, comfortable and mine are covered in the lovely Cuoio Toscana semi aniline leather. Beautiful. But the Lusso, introduces a better and improved shape, a more finished design to the back and cowl and reminds me that the original FF seat owes quite a lot to BMW (the 612 was an actual BMW part I seem to remember). Ferrari seem to be strongly developing in the design department and I feel this bodes well for the future. I get that some people will just not get on with a new design. But usually, their views leave some room for manoeuvre. Yours seem to be very extreme, and even the things you grudgingly acknowledge, ending up being qualified. One of your posts said "aftermarket scream..". I did genuinely laugh out loud at that. Anyway, good luck to you. The new interior is beautifully designed and beautiful to touch.
Happy to add to your "amusement". I'm in the taste and quality business for many years, so I know what I know, if you know what I mean. The leather is thinner with an inferior hand, and the layout is chaotic. The parts are cheaper, the fonts have no elegant integrity. Feel free to post your review of how it's better. I posted a loooong review that should cover all. Just one question ... in the hours you spent with the car ... did you notice the 100% plastic grill, the plastic cavellino, the flimsy front lower splitter, the flimsy rear spoiler plastic hanging under the pipes, and the glaringly plastic sides of the seats? Or were you excited by all the bells and whistles of the design elements, and the excitement of the new, and the prospect of INFOTAINMENT and a PASSENGER SCREEN! Did you open the door and feel the handle mechanism vs. an FF? Did you feel the cheap new mannetino? Just go drive the car, and if you're not bored by lack of road feel and the soft handling even in Sport by all means queue up and buy one. Let someone who wants the FF get one. Quality is something that can be felt, seen, experienced. The Ferrari driving experience, also something that can be experienced. I got neither from this product. Feels like a 12 cyl midsize Porsche ride, quality of parts is not F12 or FF or 458 quality.
Taste is a matter of personal preference. I do appreciate your very detailed write up and I do agree with you that its kind of crazy that there are so many plastic components on this car VS the FF. Of course you know that its an option to have the front seats in full leather (at an up charge of course). I just think at this point you have defended your stance on the Lusso and we all understand that this car isn't for you. Thank you again for the detailed write up though, much appreciated.
I checked this with some people I know at the factory, and the standard colour range leather is the same on all models , including new Lusso. The only difference on non TM cars is the semi aniline that was an option on the FF. So it is your perception that the leather is different not fact.
Plenty of people were there to touch and compare. Your team was not. The hand was cheaper, like the Cali T leather. Fact. I was an interior designer for 20 years and my family is in the leather furniture business for generations. Sorry. It was a step down. MSRP is 300 like the FF, how is that possible without cut backs to quality 5 years on with new features added? Common sense.
Definitely true about cutting corners unless they decide to cut down profit...which is unlikely. I wonder if the MSRP stays the same in other markets where currencies don't depreciate as much as USD.
Most luxury cars maintain a similar price point for new models relative to outgoing models. Mercedes and BMW are common examples, and Ferrari is no different as evidenced by 488 pricing falling in line with the outgoing 458. How the manufacturers manage to maintain margins on a cost-of-goods-sold basis is a different question with a different set of answers. Externally, the currency markets are certainly helping Ferrari, as the Euro has weakened substantially versus the dollar over the last 5 years.
Very unlikely that new features on the Lusso 'forces' cost cutting in other areas. The maths behind car manufacture works differently. Introducing a whole new model (which this isn't) is expensive and needs to be amortised over the first run. The second run (Lusso) has lower costs to amortise, over hopefully the same or even more sales, with people now being more familiar with the 4x4 and shooting brake style. Any manufacturer can decide to reduce cost where they think it wil have no impact on sales, but for a £250k car, where the gross margin on each sale is a large amount, the threat of losing a sale due to cost cutting will make them very risk averse in terms of cutting cost. In fact, they are likely to use the additional margin that lower development cost releases to do the opposite and try to attract more sales by spending the relatively small amounts it costs to INCREASE quality. They are motivated to do this because they want to avoid a loss of sales or worse, discounting. That is where the real risk is for the manufacturer.
The $USD didn't depreciate against the Euro, the currency of cost for Ferrari. The $USD appreciated from 1.40 to 1.12 per Euro, from 2012 to today. That's a huge margin of profit for Ferrari, they don't have to cut costs or quality to maintain the same price in a market that is their largest. Ferrari could spend more on upgrades and still make a better profit due to the currency exchange, why risk losing customers fora small Euro cost savings when you make it up in sales and currency.
Simple if someone hasn't experienced and sat in FF leather for 5,000 miles they won't know the difference when they hop into the Lusso. People are going to be dazzled by the giant touch screen display smack dab in the middle of the center console. Lusso -> depreciate just like the FF if not harder due to the V8T option. The V12 is going to become the halo model that most people aspire to own but most will opt for the V8T. Perfect example is I see TONS of SL63, S63 AMG models or G63 Mercedes SUVs in LA but an infinitesimally small number of SL65, S65 or G65 models with the V12 equipped. It'll be there for those who want it. Those who want to pay for it.
You can try to do something about the front looks Marcel! I'm currently 'designing' my own GTC4 and that is one of the elements I'm trying to adjust, obviously with assistance from F in Maranello
