Dropped 1-6 Bank After Washing Or Sitting In Heavy Rain | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Dropped 1-6 Bank After Washing Or Sitting In Heavy Rain

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Shamile, Jun 10, 2018.

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  1. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    [/QUOTE]

    Steve is THE man!


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  2. Streetsurfer

    Streetsurfer Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2015
    934
    near Chicago
    Full Name:
    Ron
    Try some wire drier spray on the associated electricals. That it can run ok until warmer, then drops, sounds like condensation forming from the heat where water is trapped somewhere. When a warm engine is hit with water it may run fine at the moment, then sit and heat soak, then condensation forms; for example inside a distriutor cap, and it wont start later.

    I always carried wire drier or a dispersant to the car wash with me and for snow plowing or off-roading. In snow plowing, blowing snow would pass through a grill and sometimes cause troubles. Wire drier was sort of a preventive coating, whereas CRC 556 was what I used as the dispersant. I remember using one or the other once to help an Ill State Trooper start his car after he washed it in the next bay over and his cruiser wouldn't start.

    Isolate and spray one area at a time maybe, in order to help locate the source of the water intrusion. Operating in wet conditions, its a good idea to take pre-emptive measures to seal and weatherproof things.
     
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  3. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    I honestly never thought of that. I just assumed that the cold start was running off of an independent system.

    I think you are very correct in that when you crank it up, it runs fine until the pressure bleeds off....then to one bank.


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice !

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  4. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Honestly, 67,000 miles daily driven and sitting outside in heavy Florida rain....one issue I'm facing now after 16 years of ownership.

    I really wouldn't worry about it.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  5. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    Lear!

    When I bought the car, it was originally owned by a guy in Ft.Myers Florida that just used it to drive to the marina. He would leave it in the salt air while he took his boat/yacht out.
    Needless to say, when I took it over, I spent about a year going over every single connection...brushing, cleaning and adding terminal protectant.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  6. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Thanks for that tip!

    I just washed the car, covered the area with a plastic grocery bag and it still dropped the bank after.

    I have absolutely no issues when dry. Water is just getting into something and when it dries out...it runs perfectly....consistently.


    Shamile

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  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    Shamile -- One other thing that you could try is: when it is running well, remove one of the fuel pump relays (to force it to run on one bank) and then see how the engine operates in that condition -- does it match, or doesn't match, the behavior when you have the problem? Just a thought...
     
  8. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    [/QUOTE]Thanks for the in depth analysis Steve!

    I appreciate the insight on the modules to tacometric relay. At least this stops me from a wild goose chase looking for something there related to the 1-6 fuel pump.

    I should say that every time I wash it it drops the bank BUT it DOES run and rev smoothly on the one bank until the engine gets hot enough and dries out whatever the problem is....then the bank kicks on.

    It was one time that no matter how I pushed on the accelerator pedal, it wouldn't rev.

    I will still do the test you mention and report back.

    I washed the car yesterday and covered the Y pipe and all it's sensors and covered both coils and still it ran roughly on the one side....yet didn't drop the bank completely yet great loss of power.

    Before, I did check for spark with my timing light and found all plugs firing on the 1-6 bank....but no heavy fuel smell.

    Still hunting.

    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice!


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  9. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Thanks...will do. I'm off to a car show this morning and will try that.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  10. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Thanks for that idea. I'll definitely try that.


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  11. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    25,040
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    No fair changing the reported symptom! ;)
     
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  12. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    No fair changing the reported symptom! ;)[/QUOTE]




    My bad Master Jedi! ;)

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice !



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  13. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 29, 2008
    5,246
    Madison Ohio
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    David A.
    Shamile, are you taking a girl??
     
  14. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
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    Shamile
    Nah, this was just a get together and caught up with a buddy of mine. I haven't seen him in person since one of his wild Halloween parties back in 2009. Gotta love FB for keeping us in touch.

    Shamile

    Freeze...Miami Vice! Image Unavailable, Please Login

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  15. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
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    Car was running fine all day then noticed that the revs started to undershoot when pushing the clutch in.
    When I got back into the garage, I noticed that the car was running slightly rough. I pulled the 1-6 fuel pump relay and car was running.
    1-6 in and pulled 7-12 out, car stalled. Repeated a few times and same results.

    Definitely something going on with the 1-6 side.

    As I do more testing, I'll report back.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice !

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  16. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,101
    Allentown, PA
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    Tim
    I'm sorry if I missed this, but have you checked the spark wires and extensions? Perhaps water is getting in there or perhaps the wires are shot or on their way out?

    Also, as an avid dirt rider, we all use dielectric grease within all of our wiring connections. It's pretty common to take a new bike and grease every single wiring connection as they don't come that way from the factory. The grease displaces any water from getting into the connection and causing corrosion or shorts.

    I know it's common to use dielectric grease between the spark wires and the plugs, but is there a reason why no one has brought up dielectric grease for all of the engine bay connections? It seems like the proper way to address this issue of water ingress.
     
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  17. lear60man

    lear60man Formula 3

    May 29, 2004
    1,829
    Los Angeles
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    Christian
    Well dang. I had a similar problem on my Porsche 997. I kept covering the engine with a towel when washing it. It was a cracked ignition coil (common on this car). But here is what I would try: cover the left half of the engine and get wet. Fire it up to see if there is a problem. If not cover the right hand part of the engine and fire up. Keep doing this IE left/right/front/back until you have it narrowed down to a quadrant.

    When you have it narrowed down to a quadrant, go in with a spray bottle and be all surgical and stuff. Treat it like a vacuum leak.

    I would be there to help but we got kicked out of our house because of the Woosley fire that started 1 mile North of the house. The TR is at the community center safe and sound. I talked to a couple of firemen who gave me updates on the car. We think our crib is still standing but wont find out till we can get back in on Tues?

    Good luck!
     
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  18. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Jan 14, 2011
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    Did you try swapping the relays and see if the problem moved to the other bank?
     
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  19. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
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    No I didn't...but good idea!

    But a relay is on or off...I would think. I didn't feel any clicking as the 1-6 was running rough....but I will definitely try it.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  20. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
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    Woah....sorry to hear about you being in the fire zone! I hope your and your home are alright!

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  21. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
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    Shamile
    #46 Shamile, Dec 23, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2018
    I finally found it!!

    ....and tested for a few days in the heavy rain we've been having for the last week here in Florida

    Drum roll please......


    It was.....the large square connector just under the coolant tank.

    What I couldn't figure out is why the fuel pump would drop on the 1-6 bank when wet. I knew it was just a connection somewhere as when dry, the car is perfect.

    I tried to understand the sequence of the way the car works as to see what would cut off the fuel pump up the food chain. I tried coils and since I couldn't buy a coil module alone, I spent 500 for a whole unit....same results.

    I decided to take a systematic approach and start on one side of the car by cleaning each connector with pro gold G6 ( high end audio connection cleaner and preserver ) applying dielectric grease, testing in the rain and moving on to the next connector.

    I first started with the sensors on the y pipe on top of the engine. I had done a top engine refurbish a few years ago and used the Helms gold kit....so wasn't expecting any changes. One connection that is really exposed to the elements is the two little push connectors on the side sensor.

    In all my years of cleaning, I had never used dielectric grease. It came from a suggestion on this thread. I had an old tube from Ford as it was required on the plug wires on a F 150 I used to have for business. It made all the difference!

    Once I got to the square multi pin connector, the rubber boot was warped and a very poor weather seal. I reshaped it by wrapping it in high temp electric tape and after a few engine heat cycles, fitted nicely over the plug.
    Even though I had cleaned the plug before, it was the addition of the dielectric grease that solved the problem. At that point, rain tested, the dropping bank ceased. I don't know what connection there leads to the 1-6 fuel pump, but when in doubt, start with the basics. My intention was to go over every single connection in the car. Even though I have found the problem, I'm continuing to service ever connector but at a more leisurely pace and no water testing needed.

    Oh, and if you have intermittent connections on the tail lights ( constant heat cycles ) use the dielectric grease there as well....especially on the large open connection plugs.

    At counting, 67,910 miles and runs perfectly.

    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice!

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  22. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,867
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    great to read all ok again :)
    imagine to find such a mistake at your lambo at the dealer :)
    so you saved a lot of money now
     
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  23. ferralc

    ferralc Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 2, 2010
    1,943
    San Diego CA
    Full Name:
    Fernando
    I am so glad you finally found the culprit
    As my mechanic said, these cars were waterproof 30 years ago but parts are worn now and they do not protect against water as they used to.
    Now say FREEZE!!!! I can catch you even in the rain!!!


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  24. xplodee

    xplodee Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2017
    1,101
    Allentown, PA
    Full Name:
    Tim
    Woohoo! Glad you found and fixed it. As I said before, dielectric grease is the best. We all use it on dirt bikes and literally ride those suckers through water. Surprised Ferrari didnt use grease in the connectors considering the engine bay is open to the elements.

    What a relief for you!
     
  25. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Mar 25, 2002
    36,210
    houston/geneva
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    Ross
    fwiw this was the issue on my car.
     

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