DIY Powder Coating. | FerrariChat

DIY Powder Coating.

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by KKRace, Mar 3, 2010.

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  1. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
    Rockville/Olney MD
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Has anyone been doing thier own powder painting at home? I just bought a $70 powder coating gun from HF and some paint and tried some test parts and the results look much better than anything I could get from a spray can. I cured the small test parts with a heat gun after being advised not to use my kitchen oven(said it would make the food taste funny).

    I have a friend that is going to let me borrow a kiln or I might even rig up an oven from some old BBQ parts. A lot of guys use old ovens from Craigslist etc but I rather have something a little easier to move around and store.

    Just wonder if anyone else has played with it. Most of the things I've read are really positive and you don't have to spend much money. Eastwood has a gun and powder also but the cost was a little higher. The HF gun seems to work well but I did order some higher quality powder from Powder By The Pound.
     
  2. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 18, 2007
    2,381
    Northern VA
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    Dave W
    #2 davebdave, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I bought some High Temp Yellow and Black on-line and FChatter Gianluca powdercoated the engine parts on our fiat 500. Came out great and very durable. No scratches during my clumsy install. Also very easy to clean. He baked them in a used range.
    dave
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  3. 50hdmc

    50hdmc Formula 3

    Oct 10, 2006
    1,211
    Michigan
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    mark s
    I look at those guns everytime I go to Harbor Freight and always wondered if they were any good. Your yellow parts look great....
     
  4. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
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    Kevin
    #4 KKRace, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
    There are some nicer guns with adjustable high voltage for around $300 that are good home use but so far this one seems to work. The higher voltages are better for putting on thicker coats or re-coating parts like putting on a clear coat.
     
  5. 50hdmc

    50hdmc Formula 3

    Oct 10, 2006
    1,211
    Michigan
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    mark s
    ..anybody have any expereince with the heat lamp setups they sell as opposed to the oven?
     
  6. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
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    Kevin
    #6 KKRace, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2010
    Seems like it would be hard to control but it seems a lot of the people are doing it that way. I was thinking an old metal parts cabinet with a heat source inside would make a nice oven. One site showed guys using metal wall studs, sheetmetal and rockwool insulation to make thier own ovens. You only need about 400f
     
  7. gcmerak

    gcmerak Formula 3

    Mar 17, 2008
    1,663
    Engine Bay, Georgia
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    George C.
    Hi Kevin,

    I've been powder coating for about 8 or 9 years. The results are well worth your time and effort. I bought my oven for $25 and $10 for delivery. Hook up a 220 circuit breaker in the fuse box [ Home Depot - You can do it and they can help], hook up the oven and you are set in the heating department. I use a compressor to drive my gun. Eastwood has good materials and now they have a non-compressor powder coating gun kit.

    Ciao,
    George
     
  8. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
    Rockville/Olney MD
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    Kevin
    When they talk about curing time of 10 minutes are they talking about waiting till the paint flows and keeping it at temp for 10 minutes or do you just heat it till the paint looks the way you want it to and let it cool?

    My test part I just heated with a heat gun untill the powder melted to a smooth finish.
     
  9. 412fan

    412fan Karting

    Aug 1, 2005
    150
    Northern Plains
    In my experience, the only thing safe to buy at Harbor Freight are really basic things, like hammers etc. I would be leery of anything electrical. Whenever I buy a "cheap" tool I end up cursing myself, because I always end up needing to buy the brand name tool anyway (Craftsman is pretty good), so I end up spending 200 bucks on a 150 dollar tool (having bought the 50 dollar tool first, to realize it's JUNK)
     
  10. Ferrari328GT

    Ferrari328GT Karting

    Jan 6, 2008
    232
    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Steve
    #10 Ferrari328GT, Mar 3, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The HF powdercoater works really well. For curing, I use an electric rotisserie that I got cheap, and will do anything smaller than 10" X 10" X 10". Let the powder cure for fifteen minutes after it starts to flow out. Thin parts will start to flow in about 10 minutes, thick cast iron parts can take up to 45 minutes. Here are a few parts that I did for the front end of a Pantera, in different colors (except for the plastic radio delete plate, of course). One great thing about the process is that you can take a part off the car, glass bead it, powdercoat it, bake it, cool it, and put it back on the car, all in less than one hour. Quicker than painting and more durable. The powder I use is from Cardinal Industrial Coatings, and is good for "over 1000 hours of salt spray", according to the catalog. You can also color sand and buff it out to any gloss you want. Great stuff. -Steve
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  11. clean512

    clean512 Formula 3

    Feb 4, 2010
    2,065
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    Josh @jtcarprojects
    Have been using the eastwood kit for well over 10 years for all my small parts , I got a good size Ind. oven form some old salvage yard that is 220 and will fit up to 16" wheels . I have had great luck with it . So many color to choose from and the product works great.
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
    BE CAREFUL what you PC. At 400F aluminum alloy looses 25% of its strength (50% at 500F) and it does not come back upon cooling. That means watch out around things like suspension pieces, brake calipers, engine parts and wheels.
     
  13. hotrod406

    hotrod406 Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2007
    540
    Grand rapids area,MI
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    Tim
    Interesting. I did not think AL would lose so much strength at that low temp. Aren't factory wheels powder coated?
     
  14. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
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    I would think a good spirited run or track day and the brake calipers would get about 400F. For powder coating aluminum parts they recommend putting them in the oven 50 degrees hotter to outgass anything inside of the aluminum that would otherwise outgass while curing the powder. This keeps it from outgassing while curing and bubbling the paint.

    Certainly something to think about
     
  15. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    #15 fatbillybob, Mar 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
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    I did a little searching on some of the engineering sites and most say 375f for an hour should not be a problem for most aluminum parts and in most cases my actually be of slight benefit. It looks like 400f is too low to anneal most aluminum but can do something called "artificial aging" which in most cases gives some stress relief. They did say to be carefull on some high tensil strength heat treated parts and to keep the time to a minimum.

    Certainly I need to do some more research on this before doing structural parts. Master cylinders and calipers shouldn't be a problem and most wheels are powder coated and baked from the factory but some racing wheels and suspension pieces probably need to be done with much care and as little heat as possible.
     
  17. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
    Assuming my engineering chart posted above is correct you loose 25% strength @ 400F. That means you use it on a brake caliper and it spreads you get pad taper perhaps or failure at the worst. That is not a good trade for cool looking calipers.

    Oh... but continue your research and post it here. I would like to be wrong because I would like some cool caliper and wheels myself.
     
  18. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

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    #18 KKRace, Mar 4, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2010
    I am not doubting the heat treating data but I have boiled 600 degree brake fluid on a fairly regular basis on the track. I'm pretty sure most calipers see over 400f degrees on a sportscar fairly often if it's driven hard. I'm not sure what alloys they use for calipers but my guess would be that if they were heavily heat treated they would be brittle and would warp when they got hot the first time.

    AP Racing makes temperature indicating paint that changes colors for brake calipers so you can see how hot they have gotten during runs. I just looked at AP racings website and the lowest temp indicator paint they sell for brake calipers is 300f degrees going up to 500f. I am not disputing the facts of heat treatment but just making a case that you should be able to powder coat brake calipers without worry since they are designed to work in higher temps durning normal operation than you would see in a powder coating oven. Typically your powder coating is going to be around 350f for about 10 to 50 minutes depending on the thickness of the metal
     
  19. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 3, 2003
    3,809
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    +1 on the research temperatures for metal temper etc. E.G. Mag loses temper right at 400degs so probably not a good idea you should check first. I have done engine castings, belt covers and lots of steel parts up to wheels using an old electric stove.
     
  20. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
    Rockville/Olney MD
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    Kevin
    I'm not disputing heating aluminum changes it's properties even at low temps but title on the graph you posted makes me think it's showing the properties of the t6 at a given temp/time and not the affects on heat treatment or temper once the alloy has cooled? I'm just looking at the title of the graph?
     
  21. NW328GTS

    NW328GTS Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    2,191
    Washington
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    Hal
    He is sorta right, for aluminum there is a strength loss at fairly low temps but that loss is not sustained when it cools back off as long as you keep well below the annealing temp of around 600-700F+ (Heat treat temps are around 900-1000F and most aluminum melts at around 1,100F)

    Service temperatures for aluminum are normally limited to 200F unless you over design them and accept the strength loss at temp as part of the design.

    Most Al alloys that are heat treated are also artificially aged (this makes them tougher and resistant to cracking) Most alloys are aged at 300-350F (depending on the alloy) for few hours to a few days.

    Critical parts that are machined after heat treating are also stress relieved. You stress relief aluminum parts by heating to 50F less than the aging temp for that alloy.

    Most automotive aluminum would not be adversely affected by powder coat temperature cure ranges as long as they are short and you keep it below 350-400F

    I would use a heat gun if you are worried about the aluminum and limit how much you heated the part.
     
  22. Denman_Honda

    Denman_Honda Karting

    Sep 3, 2009
    123
    DFW, TX
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    Chris Denman
    Great thread going here!

    One quick question I have. In prepping the part, would using aluminum oxide media be ok prior to finishing? Thanks in advance!!
     
  23. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
    Rockville/Olney MD
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    Kevin
    I'm thinking you are asking is it ok to use aluminum oxide in as a bead blasting media prior to powder coating? I would think it would not affect the powder coating in any negative way? The powder seems to adhere to just about anything. They recommend media blasting the parts to rough up the surface before coating to enhance adheasion.

    You would obviously want to make sure you cleaned out any media from any moving parts like the bore of a brake caliper.
     
  24. KKRace

    KKRace Formula 3

    Aug 6, 2007
    1,052
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    Kevin
    I did find it extremely interesting from his graph that time was a factor as well as temp. I would have never expected the properties of aluminum to change at a steady temp over a period of time. I learned something, makes for a good day
     
  25. flyguyskt

    flyguyskt Formula Junior

    Sep 22, 2009
    443
    South Dakota
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    sean
    cruddy ole aluminum :-(

    LOL
     

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