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Distributor Refurb

Discussion in '206/246' started by Andrew McCrae, Jan 23, 2021.

  1. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    #26 Andrew McCrae, Feb 3, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
    I have a bearing and "in for a penny / in for a pound" so thought I'd replace it as it didn't appear as if it was going to be difficult. I could use heat but then the bearing must be removed and I've no way back.
    I'm also curious why there seems to be extra adjustment of timing on the drive dogs Kevin.
    Edit: I just looked at Stefan website and it confirms taper fit with Woodruff key. Bigger puller needed
     
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  3. daviekj

    daviekj Formula Junior
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    May 9, 2008
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    Understood, makes sense....

    Good question. Perhaps it’s to allow for distributor azimuthal adjustment to pleasant central position enabling post assembly fine adjustment. It’s ugly seeing a distributor timed right but not nicely central between distributor housing and cam cover. Just a guess...
    Just for reference, post 27 in
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/removal-and-instalation-of-engine.226569/page-2 shows how the distributor two square registration drive pegs in your photo line up with the fiber washer from the cam drive.
     
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  4. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Good job Kevin. Unfortunately not realising the impact, I removed the fibre drive and then realised my mistake. 50/50 chance of replacing correctly so 50/50 chance I'll be removing the distributor to swap the drive later.
     
  5. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
  6. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    With the puller on full tension give the end of the pushing bolt a few sharp hits with a steel hammer. The vibration can do wonders to shock the drive piece to come free. Otherwise just try more heat and a bigger puller. There is nothing to this beyond a taper with a Woodruff key.

    If your puller is not strong enough you can use a bearing puller in a press to safely apply more pressure.

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  8. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Thanks Nuvolari. I now know the bearing will come lose easily . I need to borrow bigger or buy a bearing pullers like that. Being familiar only with legged pullers I wondered how the other type worked, your picture tells me that now.
     
  9. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    When I suggested the bearing puller the idea was to use that style of puller on the drive dog that seems to be stuck. Once you have it apart evaluate the condition of the bearing but be aware that to change it requires drilling out 3 solid rivits which later need to be replaced.
     
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  10. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Yes Nuvolari, I understood correctly but when I tapped the shaft the whole assembly including bearing slid out of the housing until stopped by the dog mount.
     
  11. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    158
    Holland
    This drive dog can be seriously hard to remove. Quite often you do need a big puller to get it off.
    If a lot of force is needed it will bend and you need to replace it.
     
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  13. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    As already mentioned you need to give the puller a few concentrated hammer blows to shock the taper connection. Just adding a bigger puller will eventually end in potential damage to the parts. It is the shock effect that's needed just like when you disassemble a steering ball joint. If still no movement start adding heat combined with the hammer blows.

    Best, Peter
     
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  14. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Thanks everyone. It needed a trip to my local garage, a bigger puller (on the short dimension). By putting all the force we could on the puller and heating with oxyacetylene it finally came free.

    I've cleaned and lightly greased everything. But the weights are odd, one brass, one steel, the springs are odd and one weight has different springs to the other. I've come around to the idea of software advance but this is going to have to go back in and hopefully it will be an improvement.

    The points housing was thick with black grease and now the new points contacts line up whereas before the contacts on one overlapped significantly. New Points quality is still poor and the follower looks small and weak but will get me going to allow me get the car to its customs inspection.

    Just bearings and last stage of assembly now. My outer bearing has two flanges that clamp it to the Spider but the old was just greased with no, seal or shields.

    Nearly there. So hard and slow to get parts in Ireland. Suppliers will only deal wholesale, auto parts suppliers haven't a clue and delivery would be quicker if I walked to Italy to get parts.
     
  15. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    I can highly recommend to toss the whole shaduu into a storage bag and go for a digital advance ignition solution. Then you avoid maintaining the points and the mechanical advance system and never have to look back. Price wise you will end up neutral....new weights, lobe cam, springs, points, rotating cup base, bearings and so on is at least the same price as going fully digital. I've been running a MSD based ignition on my Dino engine for a few years and it's so comforting not to have to worry about the ignition any more. Do a search here and you will find several alternatives. You can find my setup here:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/msd-ignition-in-a-dinoplex-case-no-points-fully-laptop-programable.533860/

    Best, Peter
     
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  16. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    You will also need one of these for adjusting the advance system:

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    That's basically why I eventually gave in on mechanical advance. I couldn't find the machine for sale anywhere locally so I opted for an option allowing me to play with the advance setting using my pc.

    Best, Peter
     
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  17. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Thanks Peter, you'll see above that I've come around to your way of thinking. No money at the moment as other things on the car have priority. Like fuel filter, carpet, seat refurb etc etc., I'm putting the dissie back together with the same advance parts just with the black gunk removed from everything, everything freed up and regreased. This will get me down to the inspection centre so I can get the car registered in my name and then work on getting everything working.
    Finally when everything works ill be putting in a programmable unit to replace the Super 4 and points etc.
     
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  18. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Great Link Peter, looks like several options. I feel I'd prefer a Hall or Inductive trigger rather than optical but no doubt when the time comes there will be something different again. Interesting how Stefan appeared to change his mind on locking the original lobe shaft.
     
  19. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    158
    Holland
    It will work both, you can lock the original lobe shaft no problem. A rigid shaft is just more convenient.
     
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  20. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
  21. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    New points are NOT the same quality as old OEM points. It's a well known fact that new fabricated points most often are of questionable quality and wears out quicker.

    Best, Peter
     
  22. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Agreed. The points that are available today are garbage quality and fail quite often and quickly. For this reason NOS points are very valuable and owners do everything they can to get mileage out of their old set of points.

    Beware of new manufacture points for a Dino. You are asking to be towed.
     
  23. Stefan Elshout

    Stefan Elshout Karting

    Dec 1, 2011
    158
    Holland
    Don't want to be the Devils advocate, but i think the cam lobes are also part of the problem.
    I've installed these new points on many distributors, i don't really like the quality compared to the original ones, but they have never caused any problems. And i've installed them in Fiat Dino's from which i know they ran them far beyond 10.000km's without issues and without the need to readjust.
    I always do inspect these cam lobes very thoroughly and in most cases the lobes show wear on the cam nose which results in a rough surface.
    So yes, the points are of inferior quality, but it's not the only reason that they fail.
     
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  24. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    I agree on the new points. Mine were Superformance. I think the contact is thinner which means the moving point rotates further causing the misalignment. I didn't throw the calipers on it to prove it. Part of the problem is the points design is 2 separate parts with one aligned by the original base plate pin. If these came as one assembly like I recall most points used to, then it'd be less of a problem.
     
  25. Andrew McCrae

    Andrew McCrae Karting

    Jun 5, 2016
    227
    Ireland
    Finally, finally got the dissie back in. I polished up the advance and cleaned and regressed everything in the knowledge that I'll be replacing it with software.

    Timing, thanks to Kevin for the idea, I printed off a disk with lines showing 10 degree advance and with a pointer on the rotor I managed to align everything so each spark happens at exactly 10 degree using a multimeter to detect opening.

    Putting back on I was 180 out on the coupling but figured that out when it backfired. Last job was using the multimeter again to check points opened on cyl 3 when the crank at 10 degrees.

    Starts a lot easier than before, revs better suggesting 5 & 6 are better and should be good to get me moving now after carbs are set.

    Thanks for all the advice guys, some not acted upon yet on electronic ignition but will be looking for that advice again in a year when everything else is assembled.

    Andrew
     
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