Dissecting the Mondials

I guess I'll whip it out again

I saved this since this question comes up often. It may repeat some of what you were already told:

I have a Mondial 8.
Key points for all Ferrari and Mondials in particular:
1) Pre purchase mechanical inspection. DO NOT BUY WITHOUT ONE. If bidding, contact the seller and ask if any bid can be contingent on PPI. If not, walk.
You must realize that ALL Ferraris have their parts dipped in platinum. I paid for my Mondial twice. Once to buy it and that amount again in parts and service. Consider: Clutch job: $3,000. Major Tune up: $4,000 every five years. Get the picture?
2) Do homework on prices
3) Budget at least 5k for repairs and work just for a "good one"(if you don't end up needing it, fine)
4) Depending on your budget, better to get a needs nothing no stories Mondial 8 for 18,000, than a 3.2 for 30,000 that needs 20,000 worth of work.
Better to spend money up front for a good one than to have to fix up. The first way is cheaper. Trust me on that one.

Now, quick summary of the models

1) Mondial 8 1980-82
First run of the car. A 2 valve engine.
Black bumpers, weakest engine..BUT...can get a nearly perfect one for 20k or less (NEVER pay more than around 20 for ANY Mondial 8), and one that needs work for 15.

Yes, slow from 0-60, but once moving has plenty of speed (for me). It has all the right sounds, looks (imho) and feels like what it is..a Ferrari.

Same engine as the 308


2) Mondial QV. 1983-85
All that applies to the 8, applies here, except add 2-5 to price and more horsepower and better console layout.

Same engine as the 308qv


3) Mondial 3.2 1986-1988
In my opinion, if you can afford it, this is THE best value in Ferraris, not to mention Mondials.
Beautiful color coded bumpers, nice 3.2 engine, non-metric tires and wheels after 86. ABS, on later models.

Same engine as the 328 (tied for best Ferrari value)


4) Mondial t 1989-92(?)
All same applies as 3.2, but with a 3.4 engine, different engine configuration.
Adds power steering and really nice and modern interior. Mostly cabs...coupes VERY rare. Most costly in purchase and upkeep....but soooo nice.

Same engine as the 348.

Lastly, note: On these boards, you will find people declaring that certain Ferraris are "slow" "junk" not to be bought, etc etc. Ignore them. A Ferrari is a Ferrari...it is only a question of what YOU want and what you can afford. End of story.

 

Best guess right now:

8 - $15-20k
QV coupe - $20-25k
QV cab - $22-30k
3.2 coupe - $25k-35k
3.2 cab - $25k-35k

Cabs are flexi-flyers and are not good for track use. The coupes I think are better than 308 GTBs for the track. Asking prices have been sneaking up lately but I have no clue if that is real or imagined growth. 3.2 should be (if it was maintained) the most reliable of the bunch. Cabs are nice, just don't go over railroad crossings with them...

 

3.2 is a great car. IMO in many ways better than the t.
Everyone wanted the cabs but the coupe was a far better car to drive, in fact for every day use it was the best car they made during the period.

I have never been a big fan of the styling but the coupe is a nice car.

 

I did a bunch of research and drove all three versions before deciding to find the best 3.2 that I could buy.
I agree with what has been said above. Any of them are great. I learned that the most reliable and least costly to own is the 3.2.
After searching the land over, for about two years, we found our car at Ferrari of New England. For reference only, I will provide the details......
It is a 88.5 Mondial Cab, Red over black. It had only 6Kmiles on it when we bought it last year. Now it has 9K on it. It came with a complete, and I do mean complete maintenence and ownership history, which is extreemly important. Before buying the car I contacted each of the previous owners to discuss the car. I reccomend doing this as well.
Bottom line is we paid $44,000.00 for a perfect, sorted example. This price also included the 30K service which was completed over the winter months by Ferrari of New England.
I can not be more happy with the car. We enjoy it a great deal. It has been completly reliable and its a blast to drive. I have had many newer performance cars and enjoyed them less. The car is quick but not fast, its difficult but not challenging to drive, and it sounds great. I also love looking at it.
Whether or not it increases in value is not a concern and should not be a concern for you. You need to buy one for the right reason, which is to enjoy it with three of your family members or good friends.
I have to beleive that a very good example will increase in value as long as you maintain it propperly and have the documentation to prove it.
As for me, I have to beleive that there are a number of people in my situation that will continue to want a Mondial in the coming years. I am married,with two boys. We are a family that loves cars. We often enjoy driving it and meeting other Ferrari owners.
I reccomend you take the time to find the right car, and then pay the premium that it will cost to buy it. Dont skimp up front. You will pay for it later times ten.
Best of luck!
- Ron

 

I don't think so... they are all good...get what you want, just one that works, ( amazing how many used car buyers overlook that small detail) everyone hates the stying and lack of performance of the 400 series but know they are all agush over them and pumping up the prices...lesson I've learned in life is so very simple....buy what you like (the hell with the "experts") and buy 'em when no one else wants 'em (follow the herd and you get trampled) ! Live according to both one and two above and you will never loose out emotionally or financially!

 

We bought a Mondial t Cab over Thanksgiving for low 30's. The car is no garage queen, but is in great shape and runs superbly. We've put almost 6000 miles on it since purchase, and I 've had the 355 out twice in that time

It needed nothing spent on it whatsoever and had a recent 30K service done by a dealer before we bought it.

As many have noted in other threads, a high mileage car is not always a bad thing. Garage queens tend to leak and have more than their fair share of dramas. My general rule of thumb is 2500 miles per year with matching interior wear.

Anyway, no matter what you get, drive it regularly and ENJOY it!

Dave

 

I wanted the 3.2 because of the same reasons that are stated above.
As for driving them, they all drive great. I especially liked the T because of the power steering and the increased power. Although there is a diference in power in each of them, I would not shy away from buying the 8 , 3.2 or the T if you are able to find the right one in any form.
In my opinion, you dont notice the power difference as much unless you go from seat to seat. I also have found that I dont drive the Mondial very hard often. I have found that it is more of a cruser that is a blast to drive.
I also agree that you need to drive the car in order to keep it happy. I have noticed that the car drives better and runs better after a good - sometimes hard drive.
I recently met a guy in Marin County CA. that has an 88 3.2 Cab with like 90K miles on it, he drives it like hell and has never had a problem. He said he has had a number of other F Cars and some German stuff and likes the Mondial best.
Good luck!
I will post some pics as soon as I figure out how it's done.
- Ron

 

I polled a number of Ferrari mechanics, including Brian Crall from San Ramon, CA (his reply is above) and based on their input decided on backing off of a T and going for a top quality 3.2 Cabrio. All due respect to the T owners. For my situation, as a first time F-owner, I wanted to drive and drive with less stress about maintenance. I gave up the ride adjustable and power steering conveniece of the T for a super stable car....I have no regrets. I'm a golfer and a family man. The 2+2 seating works for extra bags and for fun runs to Starbucks and the local smoothie shops better than you can imagine.

Get a well documented car, a thorough pre-purchase inspection, settle on a fair price and go have more fun than you've had in a long time...especially in a Cabrio!

(fyi...perhaps you know Charles Galloway and his family out of Jackson, MS. We know each other well. I was his western states peer Senior Manager while I was at FNC out of Oxford, MS until I left the beginning of this year.)

 

Nathan, as indicated elsewhere all the mondial versions are great ferraris that are value priced. Take an 8, QV, 3.2 and t for a spin and make your own seat-of-the-pants comparisons before dropping the cash.

I bought a 50,000 88 3.2 cab for $28,000 and the car has been wonderful. Stock performance of the 3.2 is pretty good - noticeably better than an 8 or 3.0QV. I added a straight pipe in place of the cat and a Stebro performance muffler and this helps performance - still not quite a 328 of same year, but pretty darn close. One thing about all the Mondials compared to 3X8 is that they are very stable high speed cruising cars given the extra long wheel base.

As stated elsewhere, the cabs are great fun. There's no better way to cruise around town with the whole family on a warm summer day. Downside to the cabs is that they're about as stiff as an overcooked piece of linguini - which is just fine if you're not doing track time.

Styling is highly personal, however, I think many would agree that the integrated bumpers of the 3.2 are much more attractive than the 8 or 3.0QV. The steering of all the models prior to the t is a bit heavy (no power steering), however, this can be lessened somewhat by removing the spare tire (yes, I know the spare is in integral part of the frontal impact safety plan). The 3.2 also comes with ABS if that's important to you.

You'll love your Mondial. My reco is go with a nice 3.2 cab, load up the family and drive to the beach, and skip the track time.

 

I'm one of those guys who actually kinda likes the black bumbers. But I also like the integrated bumbers of the later Mondials as well.

We enjoy our Mondial QV quite a bit. It's such a treat to take the whole family for a ride in the Ferrari. Makes going on family errands more fun.

I often hear that the 3.2 is the most reliable Mondial but I don't know where that comes from. The 8 and QV have same basic engine, with less power, and I don't know how or why they are any less reliable. Our QV has been utterly reliable.

Mondials are also pretty easy to work on.

Birdman

 

Birdman is right on. I have a QV cab and it is perfect as well as a 348 trackcar also perfect and as reliable as a toyota. My Ferraris need little more than gas and oil. I see to be always fixing someone elses however. It is all about who the mechanic is and what compromises you are willing to make. 99% of Ferrari bugs have a work around. Ferrari is microsoftish in the car world in that rebooting happens often and someone else makes a better car. No Ferrari is going to be as mechanically good as a Porsche and no porshe is ever going to best a Honda in that department either. I have driven all 3 lines and don't see a big deal. I would go for the T version for more power and modernized features but one of the best parts of the QV is that what it lacks in power it makes up for in go kartness and Ferrari feel yet in this giant car. It is an amazing combo. The T is faster yet feels heavy and slow more like the visceral differences between the 348 and the 355. The 355 is way faster but does not always feel that way. Power ratings are just not that far off. The qv is the lightest and T is the heaviest. Qv's were 240hp I've got a real euro and dyno at 15% trans loss bears the 240 at the crank number as valid. 328's were 260? 275hp? Mondial T's for sure are no more than 300hp. When you are dealing with the same basic weight with a poor power to weight ratio even 60hp more is not going to knock seconds off your 0-60 grocery getter times. Mondials are crusier Ferraris that's it. You aren't going to street race the ricer with your wife and kid in the back seat anyway.

 

In my experience, the Mondials are superb Grand Tourers. Plenty of luggage space, quick enough for long trips, great stability, and upto 24mpg. When you're running across Europe and through the Alps, other cars make little sense.
Whatever version you plump for, go for the very best you can afford and enjoy it regularly. Unless you're tracking the car, the performance margins between the four makes very little difference in the real world.
Colour and styling preference should dictate your final decision.

 

Oh...

Is that wrong to do that?..

I guess I should know better.

 

Tech specs for all can be found at www.ferrariusa.com under the Past Models link.

The HP really isn't an issue for Mondials because few of us are going to be winding up the motor to produce peak HP all the time. Some of the coupe folks here track their cars and claim great performance; great! The cabriolet folks know there's too much frame flex for that and are more on the spirited driving side, top down, sunshine, etc.

The cars weigh within 200 lbs of each other (8 is the heaviest at 3496, 3.2 the lightest at 3286, the t at 3461 [avg. coup/cab weights]) and given average Mondi driving it's the torque that will make the diff. The t makes 10% more than the 3.2 and the peak power comes on lower (4200 rpm vs. 5000 for the 8 and 5500 for the others). You get 95% of max torque at 2900 rpm so you're pulling hard from the get-go.

Disclaimer: I own a t so I'm a bit biased.

 

MY first Mondial was a Euro 83 QV coupe. It was great fun and kind of my test to see if i was ready for Ferrari ownership. Years before i owned many Fiats and without the aid of the internet i swore i would never buy anything Italian again.
Well i only regretted not buying one sooner. Mine was pretty reliable, but was no concours car either. I decided to fix it up, but then realized it was not finacially prudent. Traded it to a dealer for exactly what i paid (happy). My 3.2 coupe i have now was found on Ebay. I could have never spent just the diffrence in price of these 2 cars to get the QV to the condition of this 3.2.
That and it would still be just a QV.
The 3.2 seems so much smoother, perhaps due to it being in much better condition than the QV, i don't know.
Best advice i can give anyone is to spend the money to get the best model you can find. It will be cheaper in the end.

 

I'll just add a little to what everyone else has already said. The big secret of the Mondial is balance - the size, weight distribution, steering, engine and gearbox. After having had the car in Europe for 3 years I had a new appreciation for the car - it is such the perfect small GT. Not just the point and go Autobahns (although it easily saw redline in every gear) but it really shines on the secondary roads with a very tossable attitude as the engine sings through the gears. She was my only daily for 3 years at Ramstein (except in snow) and it was marvellous. Enough power, brilliant balance and an incredible amount of usable space in a fairly reliable package. It is a very European car.
I think any of the Mondials are terrific at providing a lot of smiles per mile; A very comfortable interior, yet a car with just enough edge to keep you busy - it never lets you forget it is a Ferrari. If you are mechanically minded, it is very straightforward to work on mostly, and easy to tweak if you want. I've had great enjoyment working on mine. The styling is far more understated, and like many older Ferraris, folks tend to smile in recognition than recoil in shock when they see it. Ian Karcher, Automobile magazines' well seasoned European correspondent suggested in a contemporary road test that it may be the best Ferrari of all.

I like the 3,2 and bought one as it was the most developed package and yet retained a little of the mechanical rawness and simplicity that the t evolved away from as the t really is the first of the 90s generation. That said, all of them are great at what they do - the best and most capable small mid engined GT ever.

 

Higher mileage (60,000 on a 1989) Mondial T that has be exercised regularly and has full service records from the dealer where it as been serviced by two owners since new. 3 sets of belt changes over its life, clutch replaced recently+ rebuilt starter and all 4 shocks replaced in the last year.

OR

1986 Mondial 3.2 Cab with 33,000 miles, seems to also have full records, with belts changed at 30k service.

Prices on above not that far apart - +$4,500 for the newer, higher mileage '89 T.

I am leaning toward the "t".

Finally when buying from a reputable Ferrari dealer, who says they have gone over the car top to bottom, would you get a PPI and if so anyone know a good ferrari independent in Salt Lake City?

 

The QV was very good as well but the 3.2 had better electricals and HVAC. When the 3.2's came out warranty claims and non warrantee repairs went to almost zero. Then the t came out.

 

hello.

i've talked to two mondial owners (3.0 & 3.2) who state the fusebox needs replacing. from your above comment, i assume the "t" has electrical issues beyond replacing the fusebox?

and i thought it was the top that was the mondials achellis heal.

regards.

joseph

 

Well, it has more electrical parts than the earlier models, but I haven't seen/read anything to suggest that the t suffers from more problems than it's predescesors. It's also a little newer; that might help.

And the top is perfectly fine. It takes one trick on the way down (lifting the little lever on the second crossbar above the B pillar) and two tricks on the way up ("snapping up" the first crossbar, and digging your fingers into the space between the fabric top and the front lip, lining up the latches, and using both thumbs to push the latch closed).

 

The fuse box was the Achilles heel in all Ferrari's of the period.

The t suffered from all the mechanical maladies of the 348. The early cars had the Bosch 2.5 Motronic that was replaced midyear in 89. Some of the parts for that system are near impossible to get. It did have some more electrical problems in the chassis systems but no big ones. It had all the oil leak problems, oil pump drive, lower cam drive bearing, alternator, and shift cable problems of the 348's.

As on the 348's, all these were eventually corrected but the t was never as trouble free as the 3.2

 

I think this is a point most people miss. My 308 is a real pain in the rear for drives over about 2 hours. I can drive the Mondial all day long.