Dino ignition alternatives

As long as you keep all the original parts so that it can be put back stock, have at it. I've updated other older vehicles and have been driving happily ever since. If the day comes when my Dino starts giving me headaches, I'll upgrade in a heartbeat!

Manny

 

In my USA version Dino, I sent the Marelli AEC-103A to Permatune (great Porsche aftermarket guys) and Lonnie Lenarduzzi gutted the old electronics and replaced it with modern electricals. It uses the same case and connector and nobody knows it is different from a stock unit.


You can see their AEC-103A replacement here
http://www.perma-tune.com/P-Ferrari.html
where the page states:
This is an exchange program for vintage Ferrari concourse cars. It swaps out the original ignition system, part number AEC103A, that is no longer available. In order to retain concourse points, the original shell and hardware are used in reconstructing the module using state-of-the-art electronic components. The Perma-Tune 103A is CNC machined and then hand assembled by a master technician so that every part in the unit is original to the car.

The 103A increases spark energy by a factor of ten over conventional breaker points ignition. This is why spark plugs will never foul again, even when set to large spark plug gaps and will actually recover from fuel contamination. It uses the points only as a sensor so they will generally last the life of the engine. Dwell is not a factor: simply set the points to stock gap specifications and then adjust the engine timing using a timing light. The unique Perma-Tune circuitry allows the use of solid core spark plug wire without causing radio noise.

This ignition is compatible for use with the Model RV020 Rev Limiter and the Model 911030 Breakerless Pickup. It is also compatible with any electronic triggering signal that mimics breaker points ignition.

 

Synchro,

Is there an easy way to tell if a car has been converted? I'm assuming no since it will pass concourse inspection.

How would someone find out if there are no records without taking the unit apart?

Thanks

 

Manny,

You can't tell that this has been converted by looking at the exterior, which is why this was so very attractive to me.


Edited to add:
An embarassing story goes along with this. In 1994, I was driving South on I-5 in Seattle across a major bridge and the Dino just died. I coasted onto the first exit at Roanoke Ave and it had to be flat bedded to the local Dealer, Grand Prix Motors. It was almost closing time when the car arrived and they stated that they would look at it first thing in the morning. At 8:30AM the next day I received a call stating that the car "started right up for the mechanic". They assauged my embarassment by stating they see the Marellis with this tempermental dodgy-start-thing all the time.
I began my search for a replacement and stumbled on a Pcar guy that recommended Lenny Lennarduzzi at Perma-Tune. My box may have actually been the prototype as I recall him saying he hadn't done a Dino before and would want to see my box to determine which unit would fit within its casing the best.

 

I am interested in removing the mechanical points from the Dino distributor and replacing with Hall effect, magnetic, or optical pickup. Can someone recommend a product that converts the Dino distributor to an electronic pickup?

Thanks. I will pass this signal to an MSD ignition system.

Jim S.

 

Contact this guy. http://www.davessmallbodyheis.com/ Scroll down to "Custom Conversions" He is very opiniated and knows his stuff. He can at least tell you what not to use.

 

I fitted an optical set up on my gts many moons ago. Can get you a picture if you want, I have to find the box its in Worked beutifully. I seem to remember the name "Allison" as the supplier.

 

JCR and Dignini - thanks for the information. I will contact Dave and search for Allison.

I appreciate your help. Any other conversions out there?

Late Breaking News - Dignini - Crane Allison XR700 - I found several websites. More to come.

Jim S.

 

just found it on International auto Parts
http://www.international-auto.com/index.cfm/fa/p/pid/2538/sc/8140
If I remember it was really easy to install. I lost the twin contact ignition retard on closed throttle feature. was that on US cars too? Anyway it seems you can now get in dash control over ignition timing. In my experiance it was a day and night thing. Big fat spark all the time. No bad start problems, no high rev mis fire, it basically removed ignition concerns as a factor in tune ups.

 

Forgot to add a link to this:
http://www.cranecams.com/pdf/90002000a.pdf

 

Dignini - thanks for the links. I spoke with International.

Having just ordered the MSD unit, I am trying to find only the optical pickup system. Do you know if these are available, or must I purchase the entire system, which includes the electronic ignition (CDI).

Again, thanks for your help.

Jim S.

 

These might work, there is always a risk in mixing systems.

http://www.lumenition.com/PMA50ins.pdf
http://shop.dingocroft.co.uk/acatalog/Lumenition.html

 

I'll second Perma Tune. I have one of their very early replacements for the Dinoplex. Unit was installed before I bought car in 1986. I have put 137,000 miles on it over 20 years. Wore out 3 sets of points. Use NGK BPR7EIX Iridium plugs. I have Delco solid core wire. No point in going to pointless trigger since you have to pull distributor every 15,000 miles to lube advance mechanism and rotor bearings. No problem to replace points every second or third lube. Perma Tune has not missed a beat, tach works fine. No need to get the fancy box if you are not into concours. I'm not, I just drive mine every day.

Only way to do any better is to go to crank triggered, multi coil set up. I looked but could not find any system at a reasonable price that could be set up to match the Dino advance curve. All were designed for American engines with advance done by 4,000 RPM and only one slope. Ignition computers, etc. that could do the whole job wound up to be in the $2000+ range. I stuck with what works just fine.

Car now has 187,000 total miles and goes like hell.
Good luck with yours, John

 

John - saw your post a wee bit too late. Purchased Crane XR700 system today. Installed in the distributor with minor modifications. Not yet mounted on engine, but everthing seems fine. I will send the output of the Crane breakerless (optical) system to the MSD when it arrives.

I have entertained going to a digital system with encoder on the dynamic pulley balancer. Then you could program a microprocessor to read timing and RPM off the pulley, with additional manifold and atmospheric pressure inputs. This would completely eliminate the need for the distributor.

More to come.

Jim S.

 

Perma Tune likes a big gap on the plugs; 0.045" or more. I'm using the standard NGK BP7ES, they are a fraction of the price of the iridiums

 

Hello,

I have just fitted a Megajolt box connected to a Ford EDIS6 module and coil pack on my 246GT (4200)

I can enter my own advance curve and the megajolt box has a manifold pressure sensor so you can mess with that as well (I haven't started on this yet).

I have made a bracket to hold the sensor in place by the 36-1 missing tooth wheel that fits on the engine's pulley.

I have driven 3000 miles and the results are outstanding and I no longer need to deal with the Marelli distributor that drove me nuts for years...

The total cost of the system is less than £150

I'll post pictures soon.

Stan

 

Stan - thanks for the information. Details are appreciated. Photos would be helpful.

Thanks.

Jim S.

 

Any more info on this?

 

Sorry guys but I didn't find the time to take some installation pictures yet. In the meantime, I invite you to visit the following websites:
http://www.picasso.org/mjlj/
http://www.bgsoflex.com/mjl/mjl_edis.html
http://www.bowler.fslife.co.uk/diy_distributorless_ignition.htm
http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/EDIS.htm

I have attached a pdf of my advance curve (screen picture of the MegaJolt software). It is the original Dino advance curve. I haven't started making my own except for the high advance values at low RPM to prevent the engine from staling.

It would be great to have other installs around so we could exchange MAP files by email and compare performances and MPG!

So start shopping for an EDIS6 module, coil pack, VR sensor and spark plug leads. Don't forget to get the wiring loom with the EDIS6 as the connector is specific. All these parts are easy to find on ebay in the US.

I'll send some picture tomorrow.

Stan
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I installed a XR-700 on my Dino and it worked beautifully, I am now back to points because of a unrelated problem and wanted to eliminate the electronics as the source of my problems. The XR-700 was not my problem and the points are working fine so I will stick with them for now. I have it going through a MSD and get a really strong spark

The real problem as I see it with these cars is the distributor weight/advance mechanism, especially if the previous owners did not lubricate the distributor and your housing is shot, weights are shot, everything is worn on BOTH the one on the car and the used spare you purchased. I understand its not a problem if you maintain the lubrication but if it has not been maintained by previous owners, its a mess and Superformance's parts are not of the best quality and will need lots of work to make work, if they can even be made to work.

Dave (dm_n_stuff) recommended a system to me 2 years ago to replace the entire ignition system that I looked into purchasing and I probably should have but I got the car running and forgot all about my headaches until the next time. In about 18,000 miles over 2 years (sorry John, not up to your mileage standards) I have had ignition problems 3 times, each time in the distributor advance system, I will readily admit my car was badly abused when I purchased it, I still see the advance system as the cars weak point.

Look at the last picture on this page http://www.dinospider.com/distributor.html to see the optical pickup installation, it really was easy. I have to add more pictures to that page with more details I know

 

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/

This is another option. Megasquirt is a DIY (do it yourself) digital fuel injection controller project for a few hundred bucks. I'm putting it on my 914 Porsche POS. The add-on described in the link above is the digital ignition processor and software. Tell me what you think.

 

OASN - I saw your website and noticed the page on the new water pumps
http://www.dinospider.com/waterpump/index.html

Will these new waterpumps be useable on 246 GTS engines?
Thx

 

I don't know, they were made for the 206 and I don't know enough about the 246 to tell you. I can say they sure look the same when on the motor but bolt hole patterns could be off or dimensions could be off. With 1133 2.0's and 424 2.4's and the 2.4's being the same as the plentiful 246, our problem parts are the 2.0's and that is what we concentrate on getting parts for.

PM me if you want Juha's e-mail as I had nothing to do with making them, I merely put them on the website and was the U.S. drop off person for all the members in the U.S. who purchased them.

Oh I do have one housing here (spoken for sorry) but I can take measurements for you if that helps. Others here may know if the 206 water pump fits the 246 but unlike the FIAT with more 2.0's than 2.4 in the Ferrari world the 206 is the rare one.

 

Any update on this thread? Surely there has to be some ignition technology advances over the past 15 years.