www.rmsothebys.com/ny15/new-york---driven-by-disruption
Last seen Monday, 17th August 2015, at the 52nd Annual FCA Nationals at Nicklaus Golf Course in Monterey/CA, presented by Shigeto Kiyokawa of Japan. Marcel Massini
Great looking car. Has anybody noticed that it hasn´t got the chromed fuel cap? it has a lid like the 246....I wonder if it left the factory that way?
Full vinyl dashboard? Did this particular car leave the factory like that? I'll wait for Matthias to chip in... I've been told countless times that the dashboard must be factory-correct in order to attain Classiche certification... and yet here is a car that (I assume - given the chassis number...) should be mouse hair, that's sailed through the process with full vinyl. Am I wrong? Is this 'interim' car a special case? -Ed
there have been four transition cars: #00404, #00406, #00408, #00410, all have the new 607 L-series chassis and body, but in full aluminium. #00404 and #00410 are 206 GT´s with 2 liter engine, chassis no. stamped DINO206GT..... #00406 and #00408 are 246 GT`s with 2,4 liter engine, chassis no. stamped DINO246GT..... should have full a mousehair dashboard, as #00410 still has/had original a few years ago... I also saw this car in August in Monterey, it needs a lot of detailing to bring it back to it`s original condition....
I really, really wish Ferrari would get its act together about Classiche certification... They seem to make a different decision every day about what is and what isn't acceptable. We're ending up in a situation where prospective owners are going to see the phrase "Fully certified by Ferrari Classiche... but still not quite right". It's ludicrous. -Ed
We've had various discussions in this section about Classiche before Ed and it's a case of caveat emptor really when it comes to the official red folder. Matthias has almost certainly done more in depth research into the 206 and 246 models than anybody else yet there are still new discoveries being made as recent topics on the Fispa fuel filter canisters and the number of screws used to fix the front batchboard show. It is more than apparent that nobody kept 100% accurate records at the factory on every aspect of these cars in spite of what Classiche would like us to believe. If you take the Dino as an example the colour of the carpet fitted to a car rarely appears on an original order document in my experience. Personalisation was also possible to a degree but precise records on which cars this was done are also scant I believe. The whole Classiche operation was set up as an additional revenue stream but as the values of the cars has risen substantially since it was introduced it is becoming evident that the programme is not without flaws in terms of the accuracy of the official records on suppliers used for each tipo, the material finishes used on each car and so on. Little forward thought was given to future parts support for the older models by the factory and they effectively washed their hands of this by doing the deal with Maranello Classic Parts on the old stock they had retained in Italy. Other manufacturers such as Mercedes and Porsche have woken up to the opportunity that classic parts represent but they are much larger businesses and possibly better equipped and resourced for this task. This lack of official parts support has also caused problems in trying to determine what is correct/acceptable on a car. It has taken a number of parts specialists and also some owners to get many items remade to enable accurate restorations to be completed. Without them Classiche would have some real difficulty in avoiding an embarrassingly low pass rate when presented with inspection photo's of cars with a whole variety of inaccurate items fitted by owners simply to keep the vehicle roadworthy. When Classiche started undertaking restorations in house I understand that they were subcontracting out work such as bodywork, painting and trimming as they do not have the necessary skills or space to do this at the factory. I've also been told that under LDM they were using modern Poltrona hides for interior trimming instead of the original Connolly leather. I don't know what the current situation is regarding how these elements are handled. During my involvement with restorations over the past 6 years I've spoken to quite a few very knowledgeable people who have worked on restorations for many years and they have almost all said that many of the concours award winning cars proudly touted by specialist restorers in the UK (never mind other countries) have had fairly glaring detail inaccuracies compared to how they would have left the factory. Some of the examples cited have been the use of wrong materials (leather, vinyl etc), incorrect stitching, modern two pack paints where direct gloss coats could and should have been used etc etc. There is a love of over restoring and almost an arms race in terms of making each successive restoration look more visually perfect than ones that have gone before - something that is happening across all marques, not just Ferrari. This is not an issue as long as owners/buyers are happy as they may not be best pleased if a car was presented to a lower standard that more closely matched how it left the factory. Even today many buyers are not happy with the standard of paint finish that is leaving the factory on the current production cars so I doubt they'd have been delighted if transported back 40 years and saw what was produced then. These cars have all passed Classiche to the best of my knowledge. If the factory started to impose far stricter interpretations they risk upsetting a lot of customers, restorers, Villa d'Este and Pebble Beach judges etc
+1, Iain. You can either over-restore a vehicle to your own high standards of 2015, or you can try to replicate the original finishes and materials of the vehicle, which may or may not please a lot of people. At the end of the day, there is no way to satisfy both of these conflicting standards, and anyone claiming the ability to do so is attempting to put the genie back into the bottle. For example, in spite of its authenticity, I would not want nitrocellulose lacquer on any of my cars, but that's just my opinion. I am personally grateful that large numbers of old cars have been saved from extinction, due to the rapid and high rise of prices for these vehicles. As for Classiche certification, it is of no interest to me, and has little meaning in the grand scheme of things. Let the individual owner be the judge of what is best for his old car, be it Ferrari or Ford. Fred
From #00404 certified without the mouse-hair dashboard to #00280 certified in UK without its original fuel cap.
I agree Matthias. With so many reproduction parts now available as well as OE parts which can be scavenged off of other Italian and English cars from the same period, I wonder how someone can go this far with a restoration and not get the last 5% right. My $0.02. Keith
Quite easily Keith.... if it is left in the hands of a typical restorer to source all the parts. They won't spend the many hours that some of us have/do in tracking down those illusive items. The cloth seat material appears incorrect on that car and that is something that isn't hard to source provided you know the type of material you are looking for.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I am of the understanding that you can get the certification even though several details on the car are not "correct". Those missing details will then be noted in the certificate as being incorrect? Only requirement for access to a certification is that the main components are period correct such as engine, drivetrain, body appearance etc. Those main components doesn't even need to be the cars original as long as they are period correct. Even the color of the car don't need to be original. So what you get for your 4000-5000 is basically a Ferrari verified specification sheet on your car as per the date the car was certified. It's not necessary a prove that the car is completely as when it left the factory. Maybe some buyers have misunderstand this? Best regards Peter
I had the Classiche Certification described to me as being a certification of authenticity by the factory rather than a concours score sheet. It certifies that the car is of the same construction, geometrically and metalurgically accurate, along with certifying the serial numbers. What it is NOT is a detail by detail inspection of correctness the way you would get at a well judged concours. I have long considered the Classiche process to be an over-priced money grab and in a way I continue to think it as such. That said when the process was better explained to me I realized that it is generally mis-understood for something that it is not. When taken in context it is a specific service offered by Ferrari that holds some value. Whether or not that value equals the actual price is a totally different thing all together but one thing that is for sure is that it has become an important selling tool for high end Ferrari's and many collectors and buyers rely on them when purchasing a car. You can fight it all you want (and believe me I have) but if you are selling, you are doing yourself a dis-service not to have one of these highly priced red books.
I think the immediate value to an owner is that they confirm the paint color/trim and the original engine/gearbox numbers. I was told they are not going to tell you what these should be, just that they are correct, or not. They used to at least put paint color/trim on their website when you registered with them, which they don't do now. Fortunately, most of this can be figured out for a 206/246 from other sources. In the fine print, they can take metal samples from the chassis etc. don't know if they have actually done this for a 206/246?
Thanks for the more detailed information's Rob. You might then argue that the main purpose of the certificate is to prove that the car is not a replica or a serious tampered car. I.e. that what you are about to buy is a genuine Ferrari of that model and year that it is advertised as. I can to some extend very well understand why some non expert buyers will like to have the certificate available when buying expensive Ferrari's. Regards Peter
Hi Matthias, would you kindly tell us the date of manufacture for the 00404,00406,00408 and 00410 cars please. Thanks, Darren
