Did Porsche steal the Ferrari horse?

The first picture of the Stuttgart city arms which we still have comes from the city seal of the year 1312. This shows two horses of differing sizes (heraldic) stepping to the right in the early and high gothic triangular shield. In the city seal from 1433, the form of the city arms was changed. The arms were a (heraldic) horse galloping to the right in the late gothic round shield. This arms form serves in essence as an official Stuttgart city shield until the 19th century. Originally its basic color was silver, according to a shield book golden for the first time in 1699. This color predominated in support of the Wuerttemberg state colors in the second half of the 19th century.

The city coat of arms, in use since 11 April 1938, consists of a shield with a rising black horse in a golden field.

The Stuttgart city coat of arms is above all a national emblem.

 

Tada.
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Having owned a P-car in the past, I never ever thought they were of the same type of horse.

Always felt like the Porsche crest was "heavier" with a slightly different pose...

Robb

 

A-hah! So our Ferraris have a Stuttgart horse on them!

Thanks for the explaination, Joe. I learn the coolest stuff on F-chat.

 

a good read about the history of the prancing horse emblem for those who dont know or just want to have another read of the story,
http://www.theautochannel.com/vehicles/coll/marque/ferrari.htm

 

Good find but....I was always under the strong impression, based on having read it somewhere relaible decades ago, that Baracca got the idea from the horse after studying or at least visiting...Stuttgart! Don't have time now but if omeone googles Baracca it may well say so...

 

looks like a donkey to me............. theres only room here for one one cavallo

 

The Porsche horse has both feet on the ground and ours is balancing on one.

 

Even so, the similarity is striking, and probably not a coincidence.

 

Lets look back on how the P car got started, in essence it has Italian soul from the manufacturer of Cisitalia, I believe they were good friends and met frequently in Austria.

Maybe just maybe they flipped a coin and said,lets flip on the horse.

 

The following paragraph pretty much wraps up everything I've heard about the prancing horse logo:

The famous symbol of Ferrari is a black prancing horse on yellow background, usually with the letters S F for Scuderia Ferrari. The horse was originally the symbol of Count Francesco Baracca, a legendary "asso" (ace) of the Italian air force during World War I, who painted it on the side of his planes. Baracca died very young on June 19, 1918, shot down after 34 victorious duels and many team victories; he soon became a national hero. Baracca had wanted the prancing horse on his planes because his squad, the "Battaglione Aviatori", was enrolled in a Cavalry regiment (air forces were at their first years of life and had no separate administration), and also because he himself was reputed to be the best cavaliere of his team. It has been supposed that the choice of a horse was perhaps partly due to the fact that his noble family was known for having plenty of horses in their estates at Lugo di Romagna. Another theory suggests Baracca copied the rampant horse design from a shot down German pilot having the emblem of the city of Stuttgart on his plane. Interestingly, German sports car manufacturer Porsche, from Stuttgart, borrowed its prancing horse logo from the city's emblem. Furthermore astonishing: Stuttgart is an over the centuries modified version of Stutengarten (an ancient german word for "Gestüt", translated into english as mare garden or stud farm, into italian as "scuderia"). On June 17, 1923, Enzo Ferrari won a race at the Savio track in Ravenna, and there he met the Countess Paolina, mother of Baracca. The Countess asked that he use the horse on his cars, suggesting that it would grant him good luck, but it the first race at which Alfa would let him use the horse on Scuderia cars was eleven years later, at SPA 24 Hours in 1932. Ferrari won. Ferrari left the horse black as it had been on Baracca's plane; however, he added a yellow background because it was the symbolic color of his birthplace, Modena. The prancing horse has not always identified the Ferrari brand only: Fabio Taglioni used it on his Ducati motorbikes. Taglioni's father was in fact a companion of Baracca's and fought with him in the 91st Air Squad, but as Ferrari's fame grew, Ducati abandoned the horse; this may have been the result of a private agreement between the two brands. The prancing horse is now a trademark of Ferrari.

 

The tail of the horse pointing down, and Ferrari changed that.
Also at one time Ducati had the Prancing Horse as they logo, but there was an agreement them, that Ferrari was to use it.

 

I was under the impression that Ducati first used Baracca's logo, with Ferrari subsequently beating them to the copyright office. Quick research suggests otherwise:

http://www.ducati.com/heritage/protagonisti/fabiotaglioni6.jhtml;jsessionid=UPA3BJMGIRNVCCRNCB2SFEYKFUIHUIV3
http://www.dinesh.com/History_of_Logos/Car_Logos_-_Design_and_History/Ferrari_Logo_-_Design_and_History/

 

I believe the Ducati exact horse, came after with permission.

The Stuttgart horse, which I believe means Stud place/farm in German, was there long before Ferrari/WWI horse

The other noted horse, one should consider, is the Mustang Horse, developed about the time Ford was trying to acquire Ferrari in the 60's.

I believe their horse, was an attempt to get back at Ferrari for the obviously manipulated deal Enzo did, to inspire Ferrari to stay in Italian hands.

 

Ferrari retaliated (for the GT-40 and perhaps the Mustang) with this:
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I may be incorrect but I believe the word "rampante" (sp?) is used to accurately describe the positioning of the legs. If both were down, it would be a different Italian word.

 

I think I read in either EVO or Octane that Baracca had taken on the shield after downing a german pilot who origionally used it (as he was from Stuttgart), I'll have to go back and reread through some issues...

 

Google has a video called the "Story of Enzo Ferrari." In the video they state that Enzo selected the prancing horse as a tribute to his fallen older brother Dino who died in World War I. The emblem belonged to Dino's Italian army regiment.

 

That's 'cause the P horse has more weight in the rear; the F horse is finely balanced....

 

I have heard that too

 

one prances higher than the other, otherwise it is no thicker, statelier, studlier, has more friends, better parents, less bald or is in any less of a midlife crisis than the other
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I just saw this thread and wanted to post more historical fact vs. fiction.

Francesco Barraca's family were nobles, who owned a large stable & stud. His family were also historically calvalrymen, who's lineage can be tracked back to the 1300's in Italy. Barraca's family won fame during the Napoleonic wars, and his family served with Napoleon's troops against the Austrians ...and subsequently during the Italian Wars of Liberations.

when airplanes became militarized, it was not un usual for former Calvalry officers to move to the air service. At that time Calvalry was used for scouting and reconnaissance vs. true attacks. So these officers were trained in scouting and reporting back to command. The Dog fights came later in the war, 1915 or so.

Barraca had the back horse on a white cloud painted on his airplane as a testament to his family's noble & calvalry background. The horse follows traditional Italian heraldry, with the flowing Mane and tail, with the rampant part signifying that its bearer's family won glory in battle. Only one leg standing as in the current Ferrari badge would indicate death in battle.

There is no evidence at all that Porsche and Stuttgart's horse are related at all. Italian flyers were concentrated along the Anzio front and also in Albania, Macedonia and Serbia during the war. When Italy entered the war, they were usually using Nieuport aircraft from France that were the latest and greatest at the time. If you look at military aviation at the time it was very common for each pilot to have distinguishing iconography on the side of the plane so it was easy to id them aloft. color and image were the two main areas used until later in the war when camoflauge came into greater practice.

The two horses = Ferrari & Porsche are different, and in Heraldry represent very different things. So you can categorically state that both horses are un related, but come from Classic interpretation of ancient Heraldry. also - Porsche's shield indicates a much older 1100 -1400 registration of the herold, vs. Ferrari. the pointed Shield as Ferrari has it, indicates a Honorific elevation vs. the straight cut of Porsche which is Family earned - and usually granted by the Holy Roman Empire.

 

Correct, but Barraca is a spanish type surname: the correct Italian surname is Baracca

I don't know if Porsche was inspired by the Scuderia Ferrari prancing horse when he chose his Stuttgart horse as emblem: maybe.

ciao