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Depressed asset values: what effect on Monterey auctions?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Jack-the-lad, Aug 9, 2007.

  1. iwanna860monza

    iwanna860monza Karting

    Sep 19, 2004
    237
    IMHO
    We are talking about two totally different markets.
    Market 1 - cash rich, billionaires (McCaw's, Walton's, Collier's, Wang's) these people have massive amounts of money and they can pay cash. For this market the $15 million GTO or Testa Rossa is only another purchase that they can make if they want. Within this market the most important thing is the "RIGHT" car. They will wait for the "RIGHT" car, no stories, great provenance, etc. and pay full retail and then some, if they want. And it wont affect them one bit, I also think they will ride out the current economic wobbles with little pain. So what if your net worth goes from 4.2 billion to 3.9 billion.
    Market 2 - just about everyone else. Be it your Wall Street broker, or your property magnate or whatever. These people take what is left over from the Billionaires. They are part of what has fuelled the Muscle car movement, and will go out and buy a fake hemi cuda convertible because they remember it from the 70's, but WORSE they will buy it on a line of credit. There in lies the problem. If you are living at 95% debt level's what happens when you need to off load your assets ??.

    Further I reckon there are two types of vehicle
    1 - your full classic, Duesenbergs, 30s Mercedes, 50s & 60s Ferrari's, 30s Alfas, Bugattis etc. that will always be valuable because of simple supply and demand, for instance the Ferrari 250 California that RM has for sale, very rare, one of 9 ??, and has everything going for it. Whether it will reach 5 million I cant be sure, but maybe 4 million would be about right and where else are you going to find another one ??. Or the Duesy in the same sale. These vehicle's rarity insulates them, at least partially from any sort of economic ups and downs.
    2 - just about everything else, your Muscle cars, your common Ferraris etc. these are very market variable, depending on whats hot etc. For example the Ferrari Boano last year which sold for $700,000 - IMHO with the dearth of sub million dollar greats everything else is being sucked into the vacuum, in the late 90's/ early 00's street SWB's would have sold at that level.

    As for this weekend
    The best vehicles will go for huge money,
    Christies McQueen Lusso - $1.3 mil.
    RM Delage D8S de Villars Cabriolet - $3.0 mil.
    RM Duesy SJ - $3.0 mil.
    RM Ferrari 250 Cal - $4.0 mil.
    Gooding Bentley Bloer - $3.0 mil.
    Gooding Ferrari 166 - $2.0 mil.
    And the rest will be soft IMHO
    Have fun and enjoy Monterey
    Tim
     
  2. mdw3

    mdw3 Karting

    Jan 2, 2005
    194
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Michael
    Haha! I guess I called it--what do I win?
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    2,100,000 hammer price for steve's old ride
     
  4. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,327
    Cardiff. UK
    Full Name:
    Nick.
    pretty amazing price, but not a significant one in the real world methinks.

    bearing in mind that a pair of his sunglasses sold a while back for $70k this unprecedented price will have had more to do with the fact it was mcqueens old car than due to it being a lusso.
     
  5. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    39,805
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Bernanke just gave sellers a gift.

    Jack.
     
  6. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    39,805
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    Full Name:
    Jack
    Spectacular! How did the other lots do?

    Jack.
     
  7. texas43

    texas43 Formula Junior

    Jul 7, 2006
    603
    Dallas, Texas
    Full Name:
    Andre Cannizzaro
    Search ebay seller rmauctions.
     
  8. dealerjack

    dealerjack Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 30, 2003
    93
    New Jersey / Florida
    Full Name:
    John
    Don't understand the McQueen premium even though I was a fan of his. Twenty years from now, who will remember Steve McQueen? How much will a pair of his sunglasses be worth? Bing Crosby was once the highest paid entertainer and most famous man in the country. Artie Shaw was the biggest recording star. How much would you pay for their sunglasses?
     
  9. krasnavian

    krasnavian Formula 3

    Dec 24, 2003
    2,124
    Los Angeles/Paris
    Have you ever seen a picture of Artie Shaw?
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    5,972
    Central NJ
    dealerjack,

    Chances are that in 20 years, the guys that bid on these cars will be dead or on their way out. That said, they will have had 20 years of the pleasure of owning these cars!

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  11. krasnavian

    krasnavian Formula 3

    Dec 24, 2003
    2,124
    Los Angeles/Paris
    Amen!
     
  12. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,162
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    McQeen was the king of cool. Women loved him and men wanted to be him. He will be a american icon forever. Artie Shaw? Sorry but playing the clarinet is not considered cool. But you can buy his piano here http://www.artieshaw.com/order_piano.html
     
  13. dealerjack

    dealerjack Karting
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 30, 2003
    93
    New Jersey / Florida
    Full Name:
    John
    Well that's sort of what I am talking about. Believe it or not, Artie Shaw was very much the equivalent of cool in his day and he dated/married some of the biggest starlets of the era. I would be surprised if 2 or 3 people out of a 100 today even know his name. I don't think entertainers, even the biggest, carry their aura very far into the future. Of course there are a few exceptions such as Mozart, etc. No disrespect to McQueen, as I am a big fan - Le Mans, The Great Escape, The Thomas Crown Affair, Bullitt are all some of my favorite movies.
     
  14. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
    New York
    Full Name:
    Simon
    Most people in their 30s and younger today don't even know who steve mcqueen is. It's safe to say that he won't be an american icon forever. Younger people today couldn't care less about james dean, let alone steve mcqueen.
     
  15. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 4, 2003
    5,555
    Texas
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    i would strongly disagree with you and i am not a big steve mcqueen fan. i am 33. james dean is still cool, just as marilyn monroe. they are throw-backs to a different time. just because you didn't live during that time, doesn't mean you can't respect and long for those times again. i know of at least one person my age that has a photo of steve mcqueen with his famous salute in his office. sure, not the most professional thing, but guys like dean and mcqueen appeal to the rebel in all of us, regardless of age.
     
  16. targanero

    targanero Formula 3

    May 31, 2005
    1,647
    New York
    Full Name:
    Simon
    That's funny because I am 33 as well. Sure james dean and steve mcqueen were cool, but each generation gets further removed than the last regarding such icons. They are and will continue to be appreciated less and less as the decades go by. They were big movie stars in the 1950s, 60s, and 70s, but the appeal eventually wears off as times change and memories fade. Right now is probably getting close to the peak time for mcqueen memorabilia since his biggest fans are either in their 60s or soon to be and they have a couple of extra bucks to spend on such extravagancies.
     
  17. krasnavian

    krasnavian Formula 3

    Dec 24, 2003
    2,124
    Los Angeles/Paris
    It really comes down to a continued marketing of the brands--both McQueen's and Ferrari's. Notice how Priscilla Presley has kept Elvis' brand alive and valuable using very astute brand management strategies. No one is attending to the James Dean brand. Fiat will see to Ferrari's continued aggrandizement, no doubt, so that value should remain a constant in the foreseeable future.

    It will be interesting to see what the Lusso's new owner does in this regard. It will give us a clue as to his motivation in purchasing the car, whether for personal enjoyment or mere, damnable profit--though they aren't mutually exclusive.
     
  18. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 6, 2002
    72,211
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    My receptionist quizzed me..."Steve McQueen is DEAD?" LOL!

    Yea, baby.... he's still dead...........:rolleyes:

    Anyone flush out who the buyer was?

    James Dean is still dead too........;)
     
  19. T308

    T308 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 12, 2004
    1,001
    Southern Cal
    As is Generalísimo Francisco Franco....

    T308
     
  20. dromer

    dromer Formula Junior

    Aug 4, 2005
    490
    Pasadena, CA
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Congratulations Mike !
     

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