Dents on the roof, due to heat? | FerrariChat

Dents on the roof, due to heat?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ziggy723, Jul 25, 2014.

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  1. ziggy723

    ziggy723 Rookie

    Dec 1, 2010
    11
    #1 ziggy723, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    hello all,

    I have a strange problem... it appears that when my car is out in the sun for a good amount of time, I get 2 mild dents on the back part of the roof. The 2 dents are almost symmetrical in position (1 on the left, 1 on the right). I've attached an image of the right side for reference. However, when the car is parked inside and the temperature cools, the 2 dents disappear. We even tried using a heat gun to test if it's due to the temperature and sure enough, about 5 seconds with the heat gun, I was able to see the dings re-appear again.

    One of the Ferrari dealers told me it may be because there are weld points below which is causing the heat to expand/move the metal. If that's the case, I can't imagine this being normal? One other Ferrari dealer said he's never seen or heard of such an issue before.

    Any ideas?

    TIA!
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  2. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,827
    The Cold North
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    It's possible, but the metal must be extremely thin in that area. Very strange to say the least.
     
  3. arcangel

    arcangel Formula Junior

    Jan 8, 2013
    440
    Looks like a knock !
     
  4. Noblesse Oblige

    Noblesse Oblige F1 Veteran

    Nov 7, 2011
    6,114
    Three Places
    The weld point idea makes sense. Differential thermal expansion will make the metal prefer to buckle slightly rather than expand/contract uniformly. The sheet aluminum is indeed very thin so it does not take much force to make it buckle. You can easily produce a buckling by pressing on the side of your doors.

    As long as the paint is elastic enough to follow the very slight movement there will be no harm done. You have called it to the attention of the dealer so if there is a paint problem down the road you should be able to have a warranty claim.
     
  5. Rcktrod

    Rcktrod F1 Rookie

    Dec 21, 2010
    3,946
    USA
    #5 Rcktrod, Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
    Very strange. Could it be from heat displaced from the engine bay? You might try leaving the engine bay open when done driving to let some of the heat out.
     
  6. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
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    Don't leave her out in direct sun :)
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,631
    Don't leave black cars in the sun.
     
  8. 458trofeo

    458trofeo F1 Rookie

    Feb 4, 2013
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    +1
     
  9. CT Audi Fan

    CT Audi Fan Formula Junior

    Oct 23, 2011
    631
    Um, am I the only one who thinks there is something REALLY wrong here? If this were the case on a Volkswagen it would go back to the dealer ... And would demand repair. But the advice for a $250k+ Ferrari is "don't park it in the sun"?????


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  10. F430kenric

    F430kenric Formula 3

    Mar 27, 2011
    1,534
    I agree. He should take into to dealer and get it sorted out. If they can?.....with body work who knows what they would have to do. On a side note I have the blk roof and it stayed outside in the PHX heat 100 plus and never had that happen.
     
  11. dustman

    dustman F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    11,041
    Say what????

    Return to dealer is more appropriate....immediately.
     
  12. groutguy

    groutguy Formula Junior

    Mar 9, 2014
    271
    Is this a used or new f-car?
    I have seen this problem before on an aluminum bonnet cover on a Subaru.
    The car had some hail damage and the dents were repaired, but the aluminum panel retained some metal memory (actual term). Every time the Subaru was in the sun, the metal molecules relaxed back to the post damage dish shape. Once the vehicle was away from the sun and/or the temperature lowered, the metal molecules tightened back up and the dents literally popped back up to the proper panel shape.
    In order to alleviate the dents from recurring in the heat, it was necessary to massage the dents past the actual required shape and then gently tap the protrusion back down to flush.
    Your predicament is pretty much identical, which would appear as there was some undisclosed damage to your car (IMHO).
    As others have said, have the dealer take a look ASAP.
     
  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    24,729
    And bring your lawyer.

    Marcel Massini
     
  14. radix

    radix Karting

    Dec 2, 2010
    234
    I seriously doubt that there was any damage to his car.

    That part of the car has very little curve to it - so any residual stress in the metal may show when it heats up and expands (ever have a nice new cookie tray turn into a pretzel the first time you heat it up ?).

    More likely is that the anneal/straighten steps on the stock used to stamp that panel were slightly different than normal, leaving a bit more desire to go back to flat than is normally the case...

    The sheet aluminum may come in rolls to the stamping plant,and require straightening for example.

    perhaps some foam/deadener stuck to the inside might prevent it ?
     
  15. ziggy723

    ziggy723 Rookie

    Dec 1, 2010
    11
    #15 ziggy723, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    alright... I think I found out what the problem is. I had my friend help remove the rear trim piece so we can see what caused this problem.

    If you look at the image, there is a black rubbery glass glue substance thing and that's EXACTLY where the dents occur.... on BOTH sides. Hence, with the heat + this glass glue thing is causing the aluminum to move.

    Is this just a manf. defect?
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  16. chris_u

    chris_u Karting

    Apr 13, 2008
    57
    CA
    let it sit in the sun till the dents come back the put something cold like a ice pack on the rubber inside the car if the dents go away then you know what it is.
     
  17. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Jan 21, 2008
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    No idea, but I wouldn't sweat it. It's barely noticeable. Definitely not worth any hassle of correcting it IMO, if it is even correctable in the first place.
     
  18. ziggy723

    ziggy723 Rookie

    Dec 1, 2010
    11
    even when I move it from the outside into a warehouse/garage... i can notice the dent going away in a matter of minutes. The small dings are directly above the black "seam sealer" glue so im pretty certain that's the cause. There is nothing else touching the roof in that area.

    I may try to just cut this seam sealer loose from the roof (doesn't seem to serve any purpose)... and have the dings repaired. I think the seam sealer is literally holding the roof down, hence, causing the dings.
     
  19. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    Doesn't seem to? Unless you believe it was put there on accident at the factory, surely it was done for a reason.
     
  20. SAFE4NOW

    SAFE4NOW F1 Veteran
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    Aug 25, 2004
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    I took the liberty of forwarding your pictures and findings to technical, they suggested cutting away a portion of the glue material ( not all at once ) to see if it corrects your concern as well.

    Interested in your findings...

    S
     
  21. docf

    docf Formula 3

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Certainly not acceptable in a 250,000 plus car. The idea of a weld of sorts or possible prior repaired damage is the most likely reason. The material on your car is stressed in this location for any number of possible reasons. I Remember my son's new Camaro years ago that had a similiar problem at the rear quarter panels which was caused by the bonding of three dissimilar materials which in his case was magnified by being a dark colored car. In any event certainly should be brought to the attention of Ferrari if you purchased this car new or is under warranty. If not your call as to good body shop.
     
  22. ziggy723

    ziggy723 Rookie

    Dec 1, 2010
    11
    Thanks! Can you tell me what purpose the seam sealer serves? Since your tech team also concluded that cutting a portion off may solve the problem... that sort of confirms my thought that the sealer isn't really necessary?
     
  23. ziggy723

    ziggy723 Rookie

    Dec 1, 2010
    11
    I don't believe there was any prior damage/repairs on the car. I actually just got my car about a month ago and it's a 2011, so out of warranty unfortunately. Funny thing is, I don't recall the dents being there when I first got the car (unless I just didn't notice it initially), so it is possible that it was done by my detail guy or my tint guy. But based on the exact location of the dents, im inclined to believe it has something to do w/ the seam sealer (the location is dead on).
     
  24. docf

    docf Formula 3

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Possibly the detail guy or the people that did the tint compressed the metal on the roof at those points and the glue beneath the panel exerts pressure on the roof panel which in turn deforms the panel when hot. A black car in the sun is approx. 150 to 200 degrees hotter in bright sun than a white car. Personally I would not be looking at cutting anything on such a beautiful car. Leave it to the professionals.
     
  25. MuratC

    MuratC Formula Junior

    Jul 6, 2014
    539
    Istanbul, Turkey
    #25 MuratC, Jul 29, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    A little off topic, but a similar "mistake" happens with the Speciale. When the car is driven very hard. The plastic panels that holds side fins bulge slightly separating from the joint due to the heat. (see attached pic for exact location) When the car cools down it's back to normal. This just doesn't happen to mine but some other Speciales I've seen on track.

    Obviously an issue which was overlooked by Ferrari engineers
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