You are about 2 months late. Also posted in various other places when it came out. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/cars-today-are-depreciating-faster-than-ever-whats-gone-wrong.699315/#post-149932659
After watching Harry I think he is just past it . If it is new or tech for him then it is negative. What he does not get is that the average age of buyers of exotics is falling and they want as he calls it ‘useless tech’ Depreciation has always been there except for very limited cars and during the COVID and some people thought it would not end
Whether its true or not the benefit (an curse) of being a public company is disclosure. The numbers wont lie - so instead of conjecture - wait for the numbers!!!
Harry’s absolutely spot on. Hard to argue against his general observations. He’s one of my favourite YouTubers - i like his no bs style and he generally covers all the important aspects of what defines a proper sportscar. He’s also very much in touch with the preferences and concerns of the motoring enthusiast demographic, again evidenced by his ongoing strong popularity, so for anyone to suggest he isn’t, using his age as an excuse is a bit weak, indicating Harry’s touched on a few home truths which a few here may find hard to deal with due to having a vested interest. His comments on Porsche listening to its customers and producing extremely engaging cars is also absolutely spot on as well. Their current line up of gt, rs, and ST models are utterly sensational to drive - seemingly flawless - borderlining on perfection, and they keep on making these cars better by each generation - a remarkable achievement given the terrible imposts being placed upon manufacturers by governments. Perhaps Harry could have said brands such as Aston, Jag, Bentley have always suffered heavy depreciation although i think everyone whos ever owned one of those would already know that, so perhaps he’s just being a little careful not to upset any of his followers who may not have fully experienced that nasty element of the ownership experience yet. But he’s 100% spot on about these EV’s and in particular the current hybrid Ferrari’s (sf90 and 296) - the levels of depreciation being realised unprecedented in the brands history. Gone are the days where Ferrari was able to lay claim to being the safer/better property over brands such as Bentley, Aston, Jag. Those days appear finished, if not perhaps limited purely to the exclusive special versions, and even those are an unknown quantity at this early stage in the game. Time will be the test there. Hopefully they wont be as bad. The failings in most of this new tech are mainly in the lack of user friendliness and unecessary complexity. Having to constantly take eyes off the road to check whether the hapitics have registered driver input is incredibly impractical, frustrating, and downright dangerous. I only hope we see more of a return to buttons and a more analog approach in future Ferrari versions to where the driver can operate the media interface and other controls with more surety and, without the current complexity and frustration, and most importantly not having to take eyes off the road ahead.
or we are merely out of touch with what will seem normal over the next generation of cars/ buyer....all this loathing over haptics is odd...image your cell phone using buttons vs haptics! As far as hybrids go, drive a Ferrari 296 and then a F8, 488...458...even a Pista...they instantly feel their age. Remember when people were upset that Ferrari went with turbos for the 488? Hybrids are the new turbos. F1 cars use V6 engines...the new f80 uses a v6... I do love Porsches. We have a Spyder RS, Touring, Speedster....and others. Those are are brilliant, but do feel far less special vs a Ferrari. Is what it is. The current market trends of Ferrari pricing is a reflection of many things beyond hybrids or haptics. Interest rates play a HUGE role. When rates go down the demand for preowned Ferraris will go bonkers. Read this (its not behind a paywall, just annoying pop ups) https://www.marketwatch.com/story/if-trump-wins-get-ready-to-finance-that-ferrari-8fb2fb4d?utm_source=chatgpt.com
The point of that article was that Trump is going to make car loan interest tax deductible. Its also believed that interest rates will continue to fall....all of this will fuel demand....this is all very predictable supply and demand, market forces type stuff.
Agreed on last couple statements. How many people on this board honestly hate the La Ferrari? If not, why not? Tech and hybrid abound. V12 is amazing but as mentioned the 296 is no longer a “one off” solo chump V6. F1 and F80 and Challenge, etc seems to be a new direction that truly unlocks performance unrealized. Just my inside voice……..and I am one of the “old guys”.
Fwiw, I'm pretty sure my current 296 GTS is going to be my last new Ferrari as I don't think I'll get a 296 VS allocation (which would have been the last). So when I sell it I'm probably going to get a Superfast or a Speciale and that will be that as far as having a Ferrari that stirs my soul in the garage for the rest of my days. The 296 is a great car but it's already a step in the wrong direction for my sensibilities, and it's only going to get quieter, more digital, more intrusive nannies, and more electrified from here. This trajectory is inevitable, so there's nothing in that future that's exciting to me. Heck I passed on the PS and 12C because I find them terrible iterations of what Ferrari once was. I'm so glad I didn't play the game of buying everything to get to the limited stuff ... I'd be infuriated if I went through millions worth of cars I don't want only to be rewarded with a $3mil TT six pot pancake. I'm sure Ferrari's future is exciting to other younger people, they can have them all.
Your basis of comment is on how much experience ? Yours, not ‘A person I know or I had a friend or you spent a couple of hours in a car. To use your own description of others you are ‘very salty’ on Ferrari current models , perhaps this forum is not the place for you. Yet again your comments do not ring true , nor did Harry’s re Porsche , they suffered a 7% sales decline in First half 2024 , they say they will pick it up let’s see as they are so in tune with their customers they have falling sales . Ferrari sales are up some 12% in key markets and revenue 16% . To argue that is about inflated prices is nonsensical as people are willing to finalise purchase at these prices. The percentage of depreciation across the board (globally) has not grown albeit you will find cases of deep depreciation that is often driven by circumstance, a wayward spec or a need to sell quickly is usually the case. These cases are then held up as ‘ a market trend’ by you tubers and observers as it makes for controversy, sound familiar? Funnily enough most long term Ferrari owners agree will lose on 90% of their cars as will most owners of exotics unless their collection is solely rare marques. When you actually look at the transactions from the launch of GTB to now and talk to real owners , not imaginary ones, and not rely on just You Tube, you will understand that the amount of pent up demand over COVID lead to orders being placed by both purchaser and dealers thinking the market would hold at that level. This illusion enabling purchase of a GTB as a hold for a GTS then a VS with little or no loss. Just madness . Further those that finance cars were still thinking the unrealistic interest rates would hold without understanding the need for govt settings to increase rates to reign in inflation . With inflation globally now predicted to be higher for longer , so will rates be higher for longer. The whole haptics issue is already being reviewed by Ferrari(revised wheel in ‘25 296 and the Puro). In any case Haptics are across many cars even Porsche has them in their no 1 seller , the Macan range. It is a matter of personal choice. No need to reply as any regular F Chat users of this thread know what you will say , and many have already hit ignore , that may be the best move ! That is perhaps the best move . Yep done !
I find these threads fascinating. First off, my Ferrari stock has posted incredible returns. Second, I’ve now had my 296 for 3 weeks and as much as I love my F8, and I do love my F8, the 296 is a far superior car in almost every way. Even simple things like being able to lock and unlock the car without pulling my key out is nice. I would definitely feel differently if it was all sugar coating, but to be honest, my 296 is better in acceleration , handling, and even exhaust note. I love the way it sounds. Some of the electronics is a little funky, but functional never the less. I respect and enjoy of the classic versions of Porsche and Ferrari, but my new GT3 RS and 296 are example of how new tech can make cars higher performing, better sounding, and incredibly fun to drive machines.
The change in regime should also open the door for manufacturers like Ferrari to provide more pure ice models. It can only get better from here on. Prior too, the future for the sportscar enthusiast looked very grim.
The thread title was posing question to members whether there would be a decline for Ferrari as a brand due the unprecedented levels of depreciation being reported - also as per in Harry’s video. I personally couldn’t imagine any decline for Ferrari stocks as they have many new models on the horizon along with a huge fan base. Currently Stock value also indicates stability/ growth. Harry’s opinion on 296 was very positive ( refer his 296 review vid), as have all other reviews from others which ive either watched or read, so i didn’t interpret the OP’s topic as questioning that element. The OP Harry vid is conveying a different concern for discussion, which certainly holds relevance for 296, and how that will translate/play out with regard to future buyer demand given the significant increase in Ferraris pricing structure which (evidently) has resulted in unprecedented high levels of depreciation, frequently being reported. The other interesting element is the sheer volume of cars appearing for resale with so few kms and, even with significant discounting on the table, still not drawing adequate secondary buyer interest. Btw how are you finding the new 992gt3rs?
Even though I’m a naturally aspirated ICE purist if I had my choice, there is nothing inherently adverse about a hybrid as long as it goes well, handles well, and sounds good. The LaFerrari is a hybrid and nobody is complaining about the driving experience or the resale as it just continues to climb. I believe the 296 will hold value long term way better than BOTH the F8 and the SF90 because it is all around a much better car and most importantly a better sounding car. I think the real threat here is sound regulation. If future Ferraris sound like the F8 and just get quieter, like if the successor to the 12C gets even quieter still, due to noise regulations, these cars become a lot less compelling and that literally threatens Ferrari’s future. It’s not just drive train, it’s the sound, it’s the whole package.
Oh yes. The exact moment I knew was when he said he drives beater cars to not attract attention to himself and fit in with normal Ppl and reserves driving exotics for special private situations with close friends. Which as an owner of exotics for years I can tell you is just total fantasy and something a kid would say. I couldn’t even begin to respond to something so dumb, so ignore was hit and honestly the quality of F chat improved considerably.
No argument here except on rates. Sitting here on the edge of 2025, it seems to me, and I could easily be wrong, that rates on things like cars and homes are going higher. Perhaps in a substantial way. The little bit I’ve heard about the idea of making vehicle interest tax deductible would effectively cut rates for those financing. However, the last I heard, the idea here is to apply only to domestically produced vehicles. That’s not Ferrari. Also, on the flip side, Trump has said there will be tariffs. The last I heard, it probably won’t hit Ferraris, but, things change. What if Ferraris become x% more expensive? For Ferrari to go back to a pure ICE lineup, you would need to have a change of regime in the EU as well as a change in the raw market inputs to Ferrari. I just think we are going in between generations at the moment, so what seems right to one generation, seems wrong to another. So Harry is right, things are changing. But our pining for how things were 5, 10, years ago is like our doing the same in 1975…. And just like then, though perhaps more so now, there is a lot of instability out there friends. Just remember the old advice, buy what you love and can afford. The rest will take care of itself.
Settling for crap is not pining for cars from 10 years ago. The UI/UX is crap, maybe the worse systems of any modern day car. It is dangerous. 4000lb cars is not progress either, especially when loaded with batteries.
Look how quickly things turned in US on Nov 5th. Look how quickly things are turning in Germany right now. Look how quickly Stellantis is careening toward bankruptcy. BIG CHANGES on the way at Ferrari over next 24-36 months. Guaranteed.
I am not in the US . What is the actual import duty for the US and typical car tax regime. I know taxes vary state to state. So on a 400k USD car how much is the tax component for instance . . My market has a 30 % tax on all costs above 80k and then a 10% VAT capped off with a further 3% up to 45 k and 5% over 45 k as stamp duty . If you lease a car for ‘business purpose’ you can deduct but try to do that with an exotic and the tax dept will become your proctologist !
This is the exact reason I don't even bat an eye at buying whatever car I want at whatever cost, more or less. The end is in sight. Let's enjoy now. In my lifetime, I won't drive.
