Dealers - asking price vs reality

That's a lot of range between 10% and 20%. If you get 8-10% off at a dealer, then you're doing pretty good.

A lot of variables also at play. It could be a less desirable color combo, lightly optioned etc . Probably able to negotiate a better deal. A maxed out low mileage model (like the one we bought in Feb)? Probably not so much.

 

I bought my 07 430 MT spider Dec 09 for 177, asking was 200 so I did pretty well.

Feb 2016 asking price was 228, and we paid 225 for an Italia. But it was exactly the color, options, mileage etc that we wanted when we wanted it. So it's in the garage now.

 

If you're talking about a Ferrari dealership, I'd stunned if anyone gets a discount on a new car. When you only sell 6 or 7 cars a month, you can't afford to give discounts.

Used Ferraris is another story. Typically, the dealership is selling the car for a customer who has a new car coming in. The dealership gets a number from a wholesaler and then tries to sell the car for the customer at a delta above that number. When I brought my 1998 Maranello in 2003, the car started out at around $150k, after six or eight months, I pulled the trigger at $125k because the customer needed to get out of the car. YMMV.

 

It's not terribly hard to get wholesale numbers. Buddy up with a dealer who will let you have access to Mannheim. Then again, don't expect a dealer to sell to you for wholesale unless (1) you are willing to buy sight unseen, and (2) you can overnight a draft.

 

At least you're honest. So many people want to buy at wholesale, but don't have a clue what that means. Simple truth is a dealer can add value. Back when I was in the market, I got to know my local sales manager very well. He would keep me in the loop on incoming used cars. Knowledge can save you a lot of money.

PS: There so much proxy buying on Mannheim on exotics that it is getting to be full right hand book. However, you are still dealing with real numbers, instead of eBay fantasies.

 

Speaking from my perspective only , with some " inside information " , I can share this with you.

The price that the car is purchased for is only 50% of the equation. What you may be over looking is the costs associated with reconditioning the car.

When a car goes on our showroom, either as a consignment, or pre owned car, it only goes for sale if everything is perfect. When I say everything, I mean everything. The Service department is paid to go over every car and provide an estimate to make the car correct for sale. So, when you say , you want to know what the car was purchased for and you know what the car asking price is, so you now know their profit margin, would not be correct.

Last time I checked, the average reconditioning cost for a pre-owned car is close to $12,000.00 ! This is average, as I have seen as high as $50,000!

Buy a car from the auction, you do not know what you are getting, but you can rest assured there is SOMETHING needed, otherwise why would it be at the auction in the first place?

Nice cars get traded between Dealerships directly or kept in house for sale.

The only cars I have seen leave here are cars that needed more work that we wanted to perform... so it was a less than perfect car.

If you are looking for a F430 that needs $10k of work, I have one for you now, for $85,000... that's a steal... if that's what you are looking for.

I mean if there are 10 458 Italia's all the exact same spec and miles , all being offered at $200k , isn't that fair market value? If each seller purchased their car for $190k and 1 purchased theirs for $188k , should the $188k guy drop his sales price down because he was able to work a better deal? Fair market value is $200k... the reason the prices are all over the place, and you know this, is because of all the options, spec variances , miles, and actual condition as I noted above, but fair market value is still only $200k


Otherwise, I would just find a car being offered for the price you want to pay , for the Ferrari in the condition you are willing to accept, there are a lot of options out there.

Then again, you may just be an expert at the art of negotiation .... and that's ok too!

Good Luck in your search!

S

 

Nice explanation, Steve.

 

"Perfect" means different things to different people, so taken with a grain of salt.
I bought a car from Boardwalk and while it was nice, definitely not perfect.

 

In the last 5 years?

Feel free to PM me the details.


S

 

The business is to make money. What a dealer paid for the car, and that psychology is irrelevant. What matters is at what price will a buyer be willing to part with their money.

I always love people who want to know what I paid for something. Does it matter?

If I paid $7,500.00 for my Ferrari 599, and sold it to you for $110,000, the psychology of a buyer would likely be anger. But what if that selling price is market? Hence my thoughts on prices and what's "fair" or how do you get a "good" price. All relative to what you consider your comfort zone.

 

I am actually writing a book on the ins and outs of dealing with used car dealers. Here are a few pointers: the average car from a private seller will be of a higher quality than one from a dealer; don't be afraid to haggle, but without insulting the seller (I recently offered €80k for a Mclaren MP4-12c listed at €108 - I didn't get it, but if this was a recession or the owner had had a house payment to make, that car would have been mine, and the seller knows it); before the PPI, do your own PPI. It is a small community and people know each other, do you know what I am saying?

 

2 years ago, and I'd be happy to post details here.
I purchased a 2011 California, paid asking price and additionally paid to certify / inspect the car and for a new power warranty.
As I said, it was a nice car when it arrived, but not perfect nor "no excuses" like Boardwalk sales told me.

The first issue which may or may not have anything to do with Boardwalk is the car arrived with a large dent on the rear right quarter and a few of smaller dents, one to the passenger door and one to the drivers as well a small dent under the large one on the passenger quarter. The large dent may have been in transport (arranged for and paid for by Boardwalk or not.) I never got an answer from the transport company, I would guess they denied causing the damage.
The large dent aside, door dings on a low mileage 2011 could have been disclosed.
Next, clear bra had been applied (probably when new) and was yellowed with a couple of peeling areas near the front of the car.

The other issues were probably all related to some aftermarket stereo modifications. There was an aftermarket amp in the trunk with exposed wires that were shorting. The passenger door panel had some rattled likely from an attempt to change the speakers which looks like it was aborted because the speakers were stock. The carpet was not put back correctly under the door sills and the drivers sill was loose, one passenger rear seat was loose, poor wiring was under the dash from the stereo, a radar detector was installed and the cluster was drilled out for lights that weren't fit correctly, as subwoofer in the rear was poorly installed and rattling.

As I said, it was a nice car, but certainly not perfect. I did contact Boardwalk about the dents and had to get pretty aggressive before being reimbursed for the paintless dent removal, (not a perfect solution, but inexpensive and I figured Boardwalk would be glad to pay...)
For a car that went through a supposedly thorough inspection, was originally sold at Boardwalk and I was told only serviced there, everything should have been known to both sales and service.

So I take a dealer's "perfect" with a grain of salt. I have purchased a number of Ferraris from dealers, this one was pretty good, better than some others, and in the end about what I would expect from a dealer sale. Maybe a bit off topic, and not an attempt to trash Boardwalk. My experience was average.

That said, a Ferrari dealer is like most others. They have their own costs involved, their own reasons for discounting or not. The cars are negotiable when things fall into place. And believe what they tell you about used cars with healthy skepticism as a result.

 

I have bought an awful lot of used and classic cars and the best thing you can do is understand the market as have been said options condition and color wil be a factor in value . That being said then you need to determine whAt the value of the car is . Once I understand those things and this will involve knowing the market I find the car I like and make an offer I pretty much don't care what the asking price is if I know the market for the car I want ,I will know what it is worth. I will know if a dealer is asking to much I still offer the same number with the qualifier that the offer is cash ,that is no trade in or finance worries and I could wire the money tomorrow. With these qualifiers I promise. You can buy a car for a fair price no matter what the asking price is..
Here is a new car deal I just completed I wanted a 911 turbo S I found one I like new and in stock at a dealer I had never dealt with before .i looked at the options they were perfect and then I determined the build dAte and I realized the car had been on the dealers lot a while maybe 3 months so I made a clear and reasonable offer of 12% off list no addons . I offered a dollar amount that equated to that they came back at number more like 8 % off . I got more info from them then reaffirmed price was all I could do and I would wire the money next day .
They accepted and I got the car delivered to my house 500 miles away 3 days later and I never even spoke to them on the phone it was by all by email so I got 23k off sticker.

 

Spot on, but you sound like a wholesaler. The reason dealers wholesale cars is because it is (1) Fast, (2) Cheap, (3) Accurate, and (4) Easy. You make a couple of calls (sometimes only one), and the deal is done.

 

No not a wholesaler or dealer just a collector ,To me part of my hobby is researching cars I may like and then when I find one I am really interested in I enjoy getting and knowing a good deal .. I have only once bought a car to sell and that was only because after getting it I was not happy with the quality. I try to take the emotion out during negotiation as I know what I want and I know there are more then one.
This is not to say I don't pay top dollar for some cars but sometimes even at top dollar a car is a good deal...
Many times I end up getting turned down like when I bought my barchetta I looked and considered virtually every car on the market and made offers on most as I had to find the real price which I did and it was way under the asking ...once the time was right.

 

Well done.

 

I think you are being VERY kind. Sounds to me like that car was FAR from perfect. Sorry you had to go through that. There is NOTHING worse than receiving your brand new car (new to you) unloading and having that horrible feeling when you realize what "perfect" meant to the dealer. Hope you don't have to endure that again.

 

Perhaps kind, perhaps a perfectionist, maybe a realist.

I have purchased and sold a lot of cars, have some friends in the business, so have a decent idea of what dealers do and do not do to cars they sell. When I see a dealer quote an average of $12k to recondition a car, and I have experience with that dealer, I guess I feel want to set the record straight.

They might have washed my car, but most likely nothing else. The inspection I paid for ($750 for an hour to check some boxes.) The warranty I paid retail for, and I know that they performed no service to the car before delivering it to me - I know because sales told me they didn't have to because it was serviced there and they gave me the dates of the most recent service that the previous owner paid for. I'm not sure where the $12k was spent on my car... maybe they spent $24k on the next California they sold, in which case, their used car buyer might not still have a job.

I guess my point is just because it's a Ferrari dealer don't expect that things work that differently from any other used car dealer.

And don't get me started on my 612 purchased from another F dealer...

 

This is how I approach all of my purchases. Go in knowing what it's worth and make the cash offer...I've never had it fail.

I have quite a bit of resources though. Auction results etc.

Sometimes I'll even figure out how much the dealer paid for it and will give them a nickel on top because I know they don't want to hold a 6 figure car that's depreciating as it sits.