Dealer says the synchro is shot, PPI says OK. Now What?

Bypassing second gear on a cold gearbox is pretty common with older cars to prolong synchro and gear life.

It is also how you hide a bad second gear/synchro on a warm gearbox.

You didn't mention what the oil temperature was when the owner drove the car....nor did you say what it was when you drove it. Oil temp is much slower to increase than coolant temp on a TR.

Aftermarket cats are reasonably priced and the way to go if you want to have cats.

Personally, at this point, seems like you've got a car with a potentially expensive problem somewhere based on the anecdotal evidence.

I'd pass on the car, unless the owner makes it right, at the dealer's service department, before you buy it. You have stronger recourse against a dealer than you do an independant if something goes wrong. Put the bill in your name, and have him pay a hefty deposit upfront towards the final account. Doubtful it will happen, but that is how I'd do it.

FWIW, cosmetics are way down on my PPI checklist......it costs less to correctly strip and repaint a TR than it does to rebuild a gearbox, or do a valve job, or do an engine out service and a new clutch, etc.......keep that in mind.

Good luck.

 

I really think that you said it here:

"I don't want to buy a car then find out that the transmission does have issues, and the cats need replacing, and...."

Reading between the lines i would say it simply needs transmission work and cats. I would listen to the dealer. The seller wants to unload the car so he/she will say anything.

Go with your gut and I think it's saying walk away. It's a gamble so leave it be because there wll be anthother one just like it next month.

 

Agreed on the responses you've already gotten.

IMHO the fact that you have ask about the differing opinions on that car is a clear indication to stay well away from it. A can of worms you really don't want to open.

Keep looking.

 

Of course the dealer wants more time and money. IIRC syncros on a TR gear box can be swapped with the engine still in the car. Remove the drivers side drive shaft, exhaust header and the transmission case has a panel that can be opened.

I'm not suggesting that you buy the car take it home and DIY. Perhaps the shop that did the clutch can get involved.

At this point any offer you make should be contingent upon resolution of the shifting issue. It may not be time to run away but go no further. But the seller needs to make a decision, fix the transmission or lower the price.

 

I think $9K is a pretty light estimate if that is the problem......once you get it open you'll want to replace a whole bunch of worn or damaged stuff besides the actual part at fault, since you have taken it apart after all, and may not have that chance again, that is what always happens as you never know what you will find once it is apart.

 

Ah...no.

Great advice!

I agree. $9K is very light, as "normal and typical" rebuild parts alone were over $4K five years ago when I did my last 12 cylinder gearbox. Any surprises and, taking into consideration how much Ferrari parts have gone up through the years...and $12-$15K is a realistic number. And....if there's any problem with the differential or clutch; well, then you've got an expensive lawn ornament.

 

Once the gearbox oil is warmed up, you shouldn't need to shift the gears like the thing is a 1920 Model T. But keep in mind they don't like to be power shifted either. With a warm gearbox, if the car won't shift in a normal manner, or if you get some gear grinding during a normal shift, then something is wrong. You mentioned that the dealer has tried to adjust the shift linkage without sucess so assumes it's the synchro. Maybe, maybe not, but even a gearbox inspection would be expensive. You might ask the owner what gear oil he has in the box. It seems that Boxers/TRs shift better with some brands of oils than others.
Also, normal clutch or engine out service won't include a gearbox inspection, so it's a moot point that it was done earlier this year unless you know they specifically looked into the gear box.
Personally I'd look for another car. I realize This One is the one of your dreams, but the OMG look you'll have on your face when you see the transmission rebuild/synchro replacement bill will quickly ruin the dream.

Good luck,
John

 

I agree with the others to continue your search. The alternative is to get quotes from other shop(s) for a tranny rebuild, present it to the seller and negotiate the price knowing you will have to spend this amount to make the car right.

A well known Fcar broker often quoted on FChat tries to get the seller and buyer to share the cost of the required repairs. For low production cars this may be the only route. However since there are thousands of TRs chances are you might be able to find what you are looking for.....it's out there somewhere. Did you ever think about posting a "looking for..." ad?

 

Good day Lencap,

From my perspective it seems that your excitement for the car is overriding the results/opinions of your PPI. I am sure that you paid good $$$ for the PPI, etc and so why are you not listening to the people who gave you the PPI results? Listen to the PPI results and make your decision based upon them... You really have two choices here. Either purchase the car and assume the risks that you may have repairs to do (which could be costly), or keep looking. I say this not to be abrupt, but I have been in similar situations where I convinced myself that the issues where not too bad and then later to regret what I have done. Regardless, I wish you well with either your purchase or your continued search!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Perhaps a contrarian view is in order....

1) If you have never driven a mid-engine Ferrari, then all such transmissions will feel "rough." These cars are known to have less-than-Porsche shifting characteristics. Second gear in all mid-engine Ferraris is notorious for resisting your attempts to use it. Without cost you could have one of gentlemen on FerrarChat drive the car and render an opinion. It may be perfectly normal. It may be worse now that the shop tried to adjust the linkage.

2) What evidence did the PPI provide for "catalytic converter problem?" And the failure of the converter in a non-smog state is, as you say, academic. A failed converter will not cause any difficulty with the running of the car. It is the failure of the ignition that results in dumping of unburnt fuel in a working converter that leads to problems...heat and potential for fire. A converter no longer cleaning HC or NO is not an issue. If the PPI is suggesting that a warning light is illuminated, then this, too, is a common symptom of failure of the sending unit...not of the converter or of the ignition/injection system.

If this is the car you want, then I would look for an excuse to purchase it, not the opposite. A little bit of homework (befriend a local F-Chat member) will go a long way. Both the PPI and the dealer proposing the work have an inherent bias.

Jim S.

 

I agree with jselevan; seems like 2 possible issues. Syncro and cats.

So, how does it shift? If you are not happy with it, choose another car or plan on having #2 synchro replaced.

In terms of the cats what is the issue? If physically damaged how can there be a question? If they no-longer able to meet emission specs you should have been provided with CO documentation indicating such.

 

If the car is close to perfect in every other way then you should carefully reevaluate walking away.
Forget the cats; a minor problem in the world of Ferraris, its the gear box which is worrisome. If the owner skipped shifts when the tranny was warm; that is bad.
There is a GM friction modified gear lube that may cure the problem which could give you a bargain. If not you have a very expensive or irritating problem.
Perfect TR's are hard to find.
How many miles on this one ?

 

Lencap.......

Any updates ?