Daytona experts-anyone know 12997?

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Juan-Manuel Fantango, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. F3racin' 365

    F3racin' 365 Rookie

    Oct 23, 2008
    SC USA
    Full Name:
    Floyd Harper III
    I do not spend much time on these posts. I would like to speak to Marcel and see what he has in his files. A couple friends respect him greatly and are reaching out to him.

    I bought Fiona through a great friend that has known the car for a few decades and has kept her in wonderful original condition. I drove her home from Hershey, PA to SC in January of 2006. Pininfarina, Scaglietti and Gozzi would often stay with him and they all 3 signed her airbox.

    The airbox is being framed by Adrian to help me protect the signatures and this piece of Ferrari history. I believe it is a rare piece. I found a new 1973 airbox in the box and she is on Fiona now. I know, but under the circumstances....

    I have a letter from Ferrari of NA confirming that 'Fiona' is 12997, for a pervious owner. The letter also mentions that Ferrari of NA contacted the Italian Police, when the official was at the factory and "... They informed me that the new number (not included here) stamped and registered to your vehicle is legitimate as per their records."

    People I know and trust have known Fiona since new, except the exact details of how the Italian Police got her, exactly how long they had her and her exact useage? And why did they issue and stamp a new VIN number? You can see the outline of the original stamping (or if I stare long enough I think I can see it). Yes, I have heard different stories and it would be nice to try to find more data.

    The car was also verified before it was imported into the US. And yes my title carries the new VIN and the letter from Ferrari of NA suggestes " would not be possible to restore the old chassis number (12997) to the VIN plates on your vehicle."

    I spent 2 years looking for rust and freshening up the underside and the chassis. We cleaned, replaced the consumable bits, cleaned, removed some surface rust and repainted as needed, using the proper paints and materials. I hand stitched the seats and the original leather is still in very good condition.

    I am a partner in a UK Suspension company ( We are launching in the US and I will be putting BAD dampers and BAD springs on her. I will keep the original Koni's, if I ever show her. As you know, she was delivered as a Plexi. Officials at the factory, have said that they are confident she was converted to pop-ups in Italy before she went to the UK (I did not ask for this in writting).

    Sorry this is so long. If you can help in anyway, that would be great. As some know, she was kept out of the limelight for years and I wish I had continued that, but maybe David's inquiry will help answer some questions we have.

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  3. Juan-Manuel Fantango

    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 18, 2004
    Full Name:
    Floyd, thanks for posting as I suggested. From our previous conversations it was determined that you did not have all the history, with the exception that your car had something to do with the Italian Police or was involved with a sting or some police action. So, I thought by posting this, someone would be able to provide you with this information as well as the overall history. Let me say publicly on this form that I am sorry if bringing this to the boards attention is not what you would have wanted. My intent is that you have the history of your car. To me, these cars are beautiful, but it is the history that brings them to life. The passions, the stories, the actions of others and emotions that these beautiful cars bring out in the men and woman who owned them. They sometimes reveal the character and the passions of the owners for all to see. They create the beautiful wine, or poison pill, all of the owners making.
  4. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 5, 2002
    Portland, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Floyd-- welcome! Your car is beautiful, and a piece of history.
  5. F3racin' 365

    F3racin' 365 Rookie

    Oct 23, 2008
    SC USA
    Full Name:
    Floyd Harper III
    I would like to thank everyone for their help and support to close another chapter in Fiona's history.

    David K. suggested I seek the marks that would have been made by Scagletti artisians. The data matched. David K and Marcel both confirmed the engine s# and other data. David also suggested I speak to Ron Spangler.

    Ron Spangler was nice enough to do research on Fiona when he visited the Factory in early June. In Ron's letter to me, he said " You may feel free to refer anyone who doubts this to me personally for confirmation.".

    I have supplied a copy of Ron's letter via email to several people and can provide it, if you like.

    A few key quotes from Ron Spanglers letter, dated Tuesday 24, July 2012.

    " This is to confirm that I personally visited with Ferrari Classiche Department at the Ferrari Factory in Maranello Italy on June 5th, 2012."

    " I asked Marco Arrighi, Classiche Chief, to please look up s#12997 on the factory database and confirm it's provenance."

    "The records at the factory show 12997 to be a late 1969 Daytona Coupe."

    "They also show that the car was stolen in Bologna Italy and retrieved and assigned a number by the Bologna Police."

    This added to official Italian, UK and US records since 1982 are more than enough proof to prove she is 12997.


    Floyd Harper
  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 1, 2003
    In post #5, marcel says "they used odd numbers for that type ferrari". What does he mean?
    Comp car?
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  8. kare

    kare F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2003
    Road cars used odd numbers only. That is to say that in production serial number 12995 was followed by 12997, and there was no 12996 in between.

    PAUL BABER Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2006
    London. UK.
    Full Name:
    Paul Baber

    Really ? I dispute this.....I worked for Maranello Concesionaires in the time of Colonel Hoare. I have never heard of any cars being converted......but accept it is possible that one or two may have been converted by other parties.......but never lots and and not my Maranello......Dont suppose you have any chassis numbers ????
  10. bertrand59

    bertrand59 Guest

    Jun 13, 2011
    Lille, france
    Full Name:
    I also heard several time that "lot of" plexi was converted, but I only "found" one ( s/n13829 ) in my data...........and one ( 14029 ) converted to plexi, then back to popups !
  11. 300GW/RO

    300GW/RO Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2010
    east end LI
    Full Name:
    bertrand59.......could you please contact me . Do/did you know Dr. Lester McLachlan, Glen Khalil , John Annis or Jimmy Person (died 2018) during #14029's "facelift"? Or any other FChatters that may have been around S. Fla late 70's-thru 80's knowing these gentlemen and/or #14029.
    Thank you in advance, Jack
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  13. Pierre P

    Pierre P Rookie

    Oct 30, 2020
  14. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ

    Mar 2, 2005
    Gentlemen, please do your homework.
    Let me just say there is more than one car using the same serial number............

    Marcel Massini
  15. Pierre P

    Pierre P Rookie

    Oct 30, 2020
    You are right. So let me correct : « a 12997 was at... »

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