David Piper restores the Talacrest P4

Ditto

 

It will be very interesting to see how the Classiche Attestation as a Ferrari of Historical Interest will be worded if 0858 is submitted and approved.

 

Form follows function.

Q: Is function P3?
A: Form is P3!

Q: Is function P3/4?
A: Form is P3/4!

Q: Is function P4?
A: Form is P4!

Q: Is function Can-Am?
A: Form is Can-Am!







via rubber ducky

 

I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

 

If a Domino Factory produces a double run of Domino tiles with 2 and 4 countersunk dots, but none with 3 and 5, the Factory can countersink a dot in the center of half the 2 and 4 tiles, thereby producing an equal number of tiles with 3 and 5 dots.

However, if the . . .

Domino Factory produces a double run of Domino tiles with 3 and 5 countersunk dots, but none with 2 and 4, the Factory can't un-countersink a dot in the center of half the 3 and 5 tiles, unless they have someone who enjoys a fool's errand, or just produces more 2s and 4s and calls them 3a or 5a.

trompe l'oeil, indeed.



via rubber ducky

 

So will we see the Italian government crush this car in the future because it is now a P4 replica with some genuine components? That would be a very sad outcome.
Pete

 

From what I understand, it will still contain all correct components that make it classifiable as an original Ferrari under the Italian law. Therefore this is an improbable outcome.

That's why it's probably best to be called a non-period rebody.. Except the question is that it was modified in period, and became another car in the process, so calling it a P4 is wrong. But it can be proven under the eyes of the Italian law that Ferrari serial number 0858 was once a P4 and is a real Ferrari race car - meaning its chassis was produced by the factory in period.

Important to note that talking about this car under the umbrella of it being a replica under italian law vs talking about it being a "replica" under the market's eyes are two very different things. Which is why it's probably best called - mildly put - a "non-period rebody".

Some prefer "travesty".

 

+1

 

I see the wikipedia page has now been edited to say 603 and not 603R for the replaced 412P gearboxes to 603R P4 tansmissions. Below is how it looked yesterday and at the time of writing this post still appears in the google search page but clicking in the link the edited page appears and states 603.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_P‎
"The Ferrari P series were prototype sports cars in the 1960s and early 1970s. ... season when the ZFs were replaced by 603R P4 transmissions in all the 412 P's. ... Only four Ferrari P4-engined cars were ever made: one P3/4 and three 330 ..."

 

Does anyone here know Lawrence Stroll to ask him what gearbox is in his original 330 P4 0856, tipo 603 or 603R?

 

Wikipedia is a piss poor source. I could write on there that P4 gearboxes were GM 3 speed automatics that it would take a few hours, maybe a few days, before anyone would notice.

 

Yes, I realise it's not reliable. I wonder who edited it to say 603, lol?

 

If Ferrari did not want to help the owner making a P4 of his 350 Can Am, who could have done the job other then Piper?
100% NOT Brandoli or Autosport, they work for Spa.
This conversion has one goal: ROI. Maybe a good 'business model', but not for Ferrari enthousiasts. But owner does not care.
The new owner will have a bitsa car with some of the looks of a real P4.
When the years go by, traders and auction houses will not put all info on this car in an auction catalogue or on their website.....

There is one thing I would like to say about rebodies: MANY MANY historical Ferraris are rebodied WRONGLY or using wrong sheet metal. There are many more bitsa cars around with 'the red classiche book'
So the wrong body on 0858 is IMHO not the main 'problem' (there are so many red book classified Ferraris with a wrong body made in UK and Italy); but all together;
tubing, frames, sheetmetal, shape, parts, etc

 

At the time of the auction Ferrari was willing to do this work.

Not Ferrari's day today at the Ring.

Best

 

GT Corse is not AF Corse nor SCG ;-)

We had a nice race though. Wet.

 

Good day for Aston.

 

The French version hasn't been edited yet. Still says 603R P4 as I write.

Ferrari P - Wikipédia

"La 330 P3 de 1966 introduit l'injection dans les moteurs Ferrari. Elle utilise une transmission P3 (Type 593) peu fiable et est remplacée par une transmission ZF quand les P3 n° de châssis 0844 et 0848 ont été convertis en 412 P, le temps d'une saison quand les transmissions ZF seront remplacées par des transmissions 603R P4 sur toutes les 412 P."

 

Do a little more research.
Maybe go skiing in Aspen and meet LS.

 

Wouldn't that be nice? Is LS a friend of yours?

 

When promoting the sale of 0858 RM states "Heart of the car however remained pure P4". Later R M states "90% of the chassis is original P4". The only real modification to chassis was a small framwork of tubes behind the rear cross member to suport the rear of the CanAM body section. As for the engine the only major modification was to increase the bore by a total of 200cms.Also it is not clear which of several possible original blocks used by S F is actually in the car. Considering Classiche's reputation I question the validity of their claim that 0858 is an "original" CanAm car with s/n 0858.The original 0858 was a P4. Everyone knows this. All you need do is check the history of S F and you will quickly see they were free and easy with moving s/ns from one car to another. Technicly Bob should move this thead to a repoduction section. I hope he never does. All rules and specifications need some variables. tongascrew

 

A hint: Ferrari of Quebec
Another free one: classiche department. You can email them.

 

Thanks, Tom. Would I be right in assuming that Ferrari of Quebec look after a certain original car?

 

If you assumed that LS owns Ferrari of Quebec then you would be right.

>8^)
ER

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Two brief points

1 - The discussion regarding this vehicle started out with the amicable discussion of the pro's and con's of David Piper rebodying #0858 from it's 350 Can Am specification to 330 P4 specification. Not sure how that morphs into a claim that this car is a replica. It is a 330P4 modified into a 350 Can Am and now modified back. A replica is normally a car that contains nothing or very little of the original ala various Argentian Bugatti's or Datsun based Ferrari's. Can we return to discussing the merit or lack thereof without suggesting the car would be scrapped.

2 - From what I have read in the past, Brandoli, even though they do work for Ferrari Spa do not take as a given that they wont do work outside of that contract. The Italian system works in very mysterious ways and I am reasonably certain the right amount of Lira will get a shop such as this to do the work. Ferrari wont because they would be far to visible and would probably not risk the bad PR but aside from them all bets are off.