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CS Market

Discussion in '360/430' started by stokpro, Mar 13, 2010.

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  1. stokpro

    stokpro F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jun 25, 2003
    4,383
    Himalayas
    #9601 stokpro, Jan 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    You're welcome and congrats to CS brotherhood!
     
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  2. Sterling Sackey

    Sterling Sackey Formula 3
    Sponsor

    Argento Nürburgring 360 CS Available...

    A great client of mine has entrusted me with selling his Argento Nürburgring example with factory stripe, which he has owned since 2005. Low-mileage and all-original, immaculate collector-quality car. This one belongs with a connoisseur! I wanted to mention it here amongst serious enthusiasts rather than going the typical public marketing route.

    Please reach out for more information, if serious about a potential purchase: [email protected]

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  3. drew138

    drew138 Karting

    Jul 31, 2006
    148

    This one is up for no reserve auction at BJ:
    138536 / Blu Le Mans / grey-navy alcantara / no stripe / accident history / CNC Exotics / $199360 / 9885 miles
    https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2004-FERRARI-360-CHALLENGE-STRADALE-COUPE-228774
     
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  4. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Oct 29, 2010
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    Went for $165k with the vig (so must have hammered for $150k). So, after paying for the $30,000 recent service and another $12,000 in seller vig, the seller likely netted $108k?

    https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2004-FERRARI-360-CHALLENGE-STRADALE-COUPE-228774
     
  5. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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  6. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    No, I have no reason to believe they made a large error like that in the listing. It’s online, it would and should have been corrected if it were an error.

    [It’s not inconceivable to have a $30k service on a car (I spent over $24,000 one year on my CS and it was always up to date on service).]
     
  7. Nine9Three

    Nine9Three Karting

    Oct 24, 2017
    116
    Oregon
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    Tom
    I had the very same thought.
     
  8. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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  9. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Based on my knowledge of the CS market in the USA, I do not think this car sale price reflects much (if any) change. $165k for a car that has a "story" isn't surprising at all. There haven't been "loads" of CS's for sale in the USA since 2011 (Stokpro has all the history). Inventory has ebbed and flowed a bit, but the sales glut from 2009 to 2011 hasn't been rivaled since to my knowledge (maybe in 2016/2017 after the peak, as owners rushed to sell their cars near the high price levels).

    The market for CS's changed nearly 3 years ago. It peaked back in late 2015/early 2016 after a strong run from 2011 to 2015. Its been down since then. There were a very few "collection quality" cars that sold for mid twos to low threes during the top. "Driver quality" cars have been a hard sell for a long while, and have transacted from $150k range (with higher miles) to low $200k's. Some owners (me included) tried to sell their driver quality car at a "reasonable" discount to the collector car prices back in 2016-2017 without any luck. In the end my ask wasn't reasonable and I had to lower it to where a buyer was interested. My car wasn't alone in that.

    Mileage is king on collector cars like the CS. So, sub 5000 mile cars always have a market (albeit limited since most collectors already snagged one). Driver cars are a tough sell period. My guess is because at near $200k range, there are many other cars to consider (scud, 458, Macca's, Porsche GT cars, etc, etc) for folks that want a car to "drive" and not solely to have a CS as part of their long-term collection. There are still the occasional buyer for a CS at that $200k range, but not many.
     
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  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Yep I saw the history after my post....regardless, I do believe a price correction is coming. Cash will be king soon. CS is in range of 458 now, most will flock to the 458. Me I'll be looking at the CS direction ;).

    Wonderful cars. Some of the best to come out of Marenello.
     
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  11. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    A regular 458 and a CS are two different products in my opinion. New collectors are coming of age everyday and will want a CS in the future. To say all the collectors already snagged a low mile CS is something I can’t agree with. There are also less anal collectors / enthusiasts that will be thrillled to have a CS with more than 5k miles going forward. With approx 300 CS in the USA, I highly doubt there will be a glut vs. demand.
     
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  12. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Also, the number of 200k collector cars that haul so much ass and don’t have a ton of electronics is very limited.
     
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  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Collectors yes, but 1st time buyers? IMO most are ''newer is better' crowd when they're forced to make a decision.
     
  14. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    fully with you.
     
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  15. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    The 2nd F car I bought after a 308 was a CS. People start out with the cars from their high school days and graduate to others from there. Many people out there aren’t about the new stuff. As the new stuff gets more dumbed down with regulations and electronics, these early 2000s cars will be viewed as the pinnacle of what a sports car should be. Like how I’d rather have my old 997S back versus a overly digital 991.

    I also bought a Dino over a 488 because it’s a classic. I’ll get a 458 someday, but it will probably be when there is some nostalgia for what the 458 was.
     
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  16. jet

    jet Formula Junior

    Apr 12, 2004
    837
    Bay Area
    ZFFDU57A140136856 is for sale at Salerno Motorsports in Rocklin, Ca for $219K
     
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  17. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Interesting car...they took the after-market wing off (thankfully), but seem to have left the front splitter on?

    And is it just a reflection that shows "red" on the mirrors? (I'm guessing so, but curious what you guys see).

    I love those seats...I wonder if they came from the factory like that? (never seen that leather pattern/colors before).

    Anyways;

    - Resale red (Rosso Scuderia)
    - Factory stripe
    - Sub 8k miles

    $220k asking price.

    Interesting small world comment; the first CS I tried to buy (from the Maser store in Sacto) was taken to Salerno for a PPI. I'll never forget when Tony (iirc) calls me after only an hour and says "so, you do know this car was wrecked and repaired, right"? Me; "ummm...no, the dealer failed to mention that". Bailed on that CS (turns out it was discussed here, but I hadn't seen it). That was a valuable PPI.
     
  18. stokpro

    stokpro F1 Rookie
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    Jun 25, 2003
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    Yes, those are factory seats and leather. Isn't that the CS (the one with wing and splitter) that belonged to Fernando Alonso's uncle Juan?

    I remember that CS that was at Maser of Sacramento. Caveat emptor.

    Here's another CS just listed. 3.8k miles, factory stripe, launch spec. $275k.


    Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  19. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    Flock to the 458? Why? There are loads of them on eBay.

    As for the "collector car market"..... Like Arizona said..... there are too many "collectible cars". My buddy just bought a low mile GT3RS for $150K. I remember a couple years ago those things were untouchable.

    If there is a "correction" it's simply because these luxury car companies capitalized on the good economy and built more "collectible special editions than there was demand for. Now everybody already has one.
     
  20. Mikestradale

    Mikestradale F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2006
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    Thanks. I guess this car is listed on Autotrader or not? Can anyone please post a direct link to the advert or dealership? Autotrader is unavailable for me here in Holland. I’ve tried with US proxies but I can’t visit the site anymore since a couple of weeks.
     
  21. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    I looked for you, but can't find an actual dealer site. I *think* the seller is only using public auto trader like sites...
     
  22. Mikestradale

    Mikestradale F1 Rookie

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    Thanks! Can you post the VIN here? Maybe I can find a link that works for me through Google.
     
  23. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Oct 29, 2010
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    Here you go: ZFFDU57A740137686
     
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  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Most first timers want as new as possible. Warranty available, much newer, better gearbox...I'm not mocking the CS, far from it.

    So long you're not in the CS for monetary gain, why complain it becomes cheaper? If anything will make you think less (even subconsciously) about it's value when putting loads of miles on.

    I'm not saying just CS market is getting a correction. Entire market will.
     
  25. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    That actually is what you said to which I replied...... "the whole collectible car market is getting softer". It's just supply and demand.

    I'm actually not seeing a dip in CS values. A wrecked CS just sold for $160K. I bought mine for $120K in 2010 and it wasn't wrecked. I now have 20K miles on it. I have no reason to sell it. I'm trying to add a convertible Ferrari.
     
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