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Critical things to know in buying or owning a Mondial

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by snj5, Jul 31, 2008.

  1. spicedriver

    spicedriver F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2011
    2,661
    First of all FIATs are great cars. Well maintained X1/9s are selling now for many times their original price. How many Mustangs, and VWs can claim that ? And the fact that the Mondial is appreciating, only goes to show their value, and prove their enthusiasts' point.

    Of course all cars have negatives. Ferrari dealer service is not affordable. Original Ferrari Parts are expensive. But Porsche and Mercedes parts are not far behind. The transverse mounted Mondials can be wrenched on by the above average DIY mechanic. I thought this thread was more about mechanical problems.

    1. Don't let the car sit unused. A multitude of problems will result. Personally, I've had a (Bosch) fuel pump seize. And clutch plate that got stuck. Run the engine at least once a week. Operate all the switches, horn, etc.

    2. Coolant - Change the coolant regularly. Otherwise, the expansion tank will rust out, and the hose bub under the Plenum will get clogged, bursting the bleeder hose. These problems may happen anyway, so watch for them.

    3. Timing Belts - It's not so much the belts, but the idler bearings. They can be re-greased, but the Hill Engineering idlers are much nicer. Once the tension on the timing belts is released, they will need to be replaced.

    4. AC Belt - When this belt wears out, it makes an awful racket at start-up.

    5. Accessory Belt Tension - Get a gauge, because you're probably not putting enough tension on them.

    6. Leather - Needs to be treated regularly, or will dry out and crack. Meguiars works well, and smells wonderful.

    7. Cats - Personally don't like cats. Gutted my cat, which allows for a richer mixture. Noticeable power increase, and smells wonderful. Just ask Fred Astaire.
     
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  3. Mondial83

    Mondial83 Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2014
    685
    Well!!!!! I love my Mondial 8. Yup it's not a 2016 super car. It's a classic super car from an era that is long gone. I bought a Turbo 911 for speeding around and acting a fool with 420 hp. The Mondial no power steering no fancy management system but it sure is fun to just cruise around in. And it's a Fearri which says it all. Like Wade states we are enthuist that's why we have a Mondial forum. I still love my heavy slow but gorgeous Ferrari. Who cares how fast it is. If you go too fast then ppl can't admire its bueaty.
     
  4. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    #53 19633500GT, Jun 29, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
    Russ. Not to be ******, but Bill Pollard runs SportAuto. Pete Sweeney owns Forza. Guess it doesn't matter either way, but my Mondial 8 allows me to tell people I own a $163,000 car!!!!! (adjusted of course, for inflation :)


    I kid, I kid. I don't think anyone has ever even spoken to me when I've had it out actually haha

    Sorry your experience has been lackluster, I drive the balls out of mine, and it's a million times more fun than anything else I've owned.

    VW GTI VR6? Nope
    MGA 1600? Nope
    Maserati Merak? Nope
    BMW 323is? Nope

    Unfortunately there are many more. But this one's been fun
     
  5. srephwed

    srephwed F1 Rookie
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    I think of my Mondial the same way I do of sex throughout my life. It is not the fastest car I have owned. But even the worst sex I have had in my life was still pretty darn good. It's a Ferrari. Don't complain!
     
  6. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2004
    925
    Wade, don't get me started on the 348. Even the head of Ferrari admitted it was a POS. But this would be the wrong forum for that discussion.

    Back to Mondial. Did I mention that the starter motor is just for looks, not really intended to turn the engine over? Or that the fusebox turns into a blob of melted plastic? All those lights on the warning panel are really just there to cheer you up at Christmas? Oh, and those wheels that only take one brand of tire that cost an arm and leg but are about as grippy as chocolate donuts?
     
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  8. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

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    Wow!
    This bitter after selling your 8V under market? AND you had a GT4?
    12 years on this forum and dumping on cars some people like, even you, since you bought one?

    The OP of this thread did amazing things with his 8, and potential is there.

    Put the handbag down, and try to recall when YOU had one.

    Cars in the 80's sucked. Period. It's called the "Malaise" era for a reason.

    If someone likes them, or they can't swing something else and they WANT a Ferrari, give them a damn break. We know they're flawed. Every car is. Like humans, some far more than others.
     
  9. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    :rolleyes: You're hopeless, dude.
     
  10. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2004
    925
    Forgot about the window motors. They are only supposed to be used ten times. After that they need help.
     
  11. ronfrohock

    ronfrohock F1 Rookie
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    Im having a hard time understanding the motivation for your recent posts.

    Respectfully,
    Ron Frohock
     
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  13. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    #60 19633500GT, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I feel like I'm watching a real time comedy show. With one liners every post haha

    I think we're just egging you on though?

    Anyway, blasting around in my Mondi. Gotta go!
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  14. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2010
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    It looks like your Mondial had too little exercise in your ownership.

    I open & close my windows daily. Even if I forgot to do it, I get up in the middle of the night to exercise the window motors.





    Stop nagging about the old girlfriend and go have some good times with the new one: aka the Volkswagen diesel. <--- You are joking right?!
    Anyway, glad you got rid of it, more Mondials for us, we will stay away from the Volkswagen Diesel cars. It's a promise! ;)
     
  15. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie

    Apr 25, 2010
    2,710
    Central Florida
    HEY RUSS!

    Welcome to my IGNORE list! I hope you enjoy your stay.

    You only seem interested in stirring up emotions = TROLL.

    Bye!
    Alden
     
  16. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Global Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2003
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    Hmm. . . the conversational tone here brings an old adage to mind.

    "Opinions are like *******s. Everyone has one, and they all stink!"

    Turns out that's wrong.

    Should be, "Some people with opinions act like *******s. . . "

    Now, I'm not exactly saying anyone here acting like an *******, but I'm not, not saying it either. :D

    On a tangential note. Russ, not sure why you're so angry about this. Mondial owners are quirky, they're the odd ducks in the Ferrari Pond, so lighten up. Oh, and some of my best friends are Mondial owners, so I understand and not only tolerate, but encourage them.

    And, not to digress further, all 80's cars are dogs, some just barked louder than others.

    D
     
  17. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #64 paulchua, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
    Hi Russ,

    Again, thanks for taking the time to respond. Appreciate you are clarifying the two exact models you refer to, namely the 2002 Turbo. It is a much better comparison.

    Two things to consider, though.

    One,
    I was aware of the 2002 Turbo, the reason I did not use it in my comparison, was because it was never imported into the United States due to the stringent emission laws of the 70s that emasculated many cars (Mondial 8 included). In the case of the Mondial 8, they had to downgrade from the previous 255 HP engine from the 308 GT4 to an Uncle Sam approved 205 HP. I'm sure today; the Bimmer is past the 25-year limit, so outside places say like California, people probably have already brought them across the pond.

    You better believe losing *50* cavallinos to make the EPA happy will have an effect on straight line speed! Something the 2002 (thankfully avoided.) Comparing a car that was intentionally handicapped for legal reasons against a car that had no such restrictions needs to have at the very least some context added to the comparison.

    Two,
    While the 2002 will certainly sprint past the 8 (and only the 8 btw) in the 0-60 7.3 for the Bimmer vs 8.2 for the neutered 8.
    Road Test of the 2002 Turbo Here:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/triggerscarstuff/3589206644/in/album-72157619140387384/

    The EPA held back 8 starts to catch up by the 1/4
    16 seconds for the 2002 vs 16.2 for the 8

    Here's the kicker though:
    The 2002 Turbo's top speed peters out at 130 - vs the 140 for the 8.

    But, let me be intellectually honest, you're right. In most circumstances, the non EPA-muzzled illegal 2002 Bimmer would beat a Mondial 8 on US streets back in 1980-1982. If the drivers were inconsiderate and foolish to take the race to a freeway where top speeds are involved the 8 would slowly pull away from the non-street legal turbo.

    Of course, this is all academic - the fact is as evidenced by your wife's 2012 Jetta - they are today BOTH SLOW.

    That's was my previous point. Your wife's Jetta would spank the 2002 Turbo with its mediocre 1/4 mile of 16 seconds. It does not make the 2002 Turbo any less of a marvelous machine, a great pleasure to drive, nor does it detract from the incredible car that it is. Values of the 2002 I believe are a testament to my view. When a car was built and the comparative cars from the epoch should always be taken into account. That's why I believe criticism of the Mondial is often unfair at best, disingenuous at worst.
     
  18. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
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    #65 Rapalyea, Jun 30, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2016
    FIRST AND FOREMOST - do not shift above 6,000 rpms! Perhaps plus a few hundred.

    Not only does 7,500 rpms stress out things [like MY scattered clutch], but its slower! I have the numbers to prove it. See posts below concerning 1/2 mile shoot out. I have actual timing numbers.

    STARTERS
    Starters ignition systems use weak wiring and often do not activate the starter solenoid after heat up. So the starter wires going to the starter solenoid should instead go to a Bosch WR-1 relay. The relay then wires to the starter solenoid. Cost about $30 and is high school simple to figure out. My local wrench did it for $140 labor and that was being generous.

    COOLING SYSTEM
    I took one look at the diagram and gasped. I and have seen light water nuclear reactors with simpler systems. So I did what no one else to my knowledge has ever done and depressurized the system.

    The coolant is now 60/40 glycol/distilled water. Going on three years, 16,000 miles and have not added one once. Further, I live at 2,000 ft elevation and sometimes have 90F days. The only time the fans ever come on is at idle. And then there is not water problem. The coolant cap is not actually rattly loose. It has enough light finger torque on it so nothing splashes out. And of course I do not have A/C. Don't need it up here anyway.

    HYDRAULIC CLUTCH UNITS
    Alpha units do fit. And they do activate. I know because I installed several before learning better. However, I would never use them except in parade mode. This is my story. I replaced both the master and slave units with Alpha stuff. Everything was copacetic then I violated rule number one above. I did that because I was new and did not know better. On a 90F day I hit 7,500 rpm and some sort of harmonic or some such destroyed, and I mean DESTROYED, dripping wet, both the Alpha master and slave units AND the clutch plate.

    Any good wrench can fix even this, but it is time consuming.

    CV JOINTS
    Most have never been replaced because they never had enough mileage on them to wear out. However, the grease is now 30 years old. I drive my car quite a lot and the boots all cracked at about 50,000 miles. And one of the CV joints was making noises. I decided to have local wrench replace all four joints and boots.

    My local wrench told me he would rather have done my clutch a second time. In all fairness I asked him to repack the front wheel bearings and that was one Chinese puzzle by itself. But all those cap bolts to remove the CV Joints? BEWARE. BE VERY AWARE!

    FUEL INJECTOR GROMMETS
    These get hard over the years and can cause vacuum leaks which manifests in driving just like a vacuum leak. You can test them at idle by spraying starter fluid on them one by one and see if the idle changes. I think I used WD-40. In my case light throttle stumble and surging were confirmed by the WD-40 test.

    Not hideous, but irritating. Most people would replace them but they are not all that handy. And cleaning out each and every grommet. Stressing the fuel injector runs etc etc etc.... Me? I simply took a hypodermic needle from PC printer ink and dripped a few drops of power steering stop leak on each one. Did that twice in a few weeks and the car runs like a scalded hound neigh on three years.

    SPEAKING OF SCALDED HOUNDS
    I do not know how many of these cars have cruddy valves and cats. Certainly the two valve cars are just waiting for a hot run to drop a valve. So do not do that. The BMW shops used to clean them out with crushed walnuts. Otherwise, just do not do hot runs in a two valve car. I saw one photo and the valves had more crud on them then my old man's 1956 Plymouth flat head.

    The four valves do not seem to have this as a dangerous problem. However, after softening up my injector grommets and achieving a smooth throttle response I had some second thoughts about carbon on the valves as well. This can manifest- especially after a cold start. The carbon intermittently absorbs then releases raw gas during warm up and you get a sort of stumble. This reduces as the car warms up but as long as that absorbent carbon is available it will cause hydrodynamic flow problems as well as fuel absorption/release problems.

    My 3.2 QV responded very well to the following regimen: 1) Lots of each and every kind of carbon remover sold by and every auto shop available for a long time 2) Never ever idle to warm up. And warm up between 2k-3k with light throttle while driving 3) after warm up hardly ever run below 3,000 rpm (2,500 for you wimps) and often shift, with full throttle, at 4,000 rpms minimimum.

    It took about 5,000 miles but my 3.2 got WAY faster. I have one of my local test runs of about 1/4 mile uphill and the Malibu hits about 70 mph. As did the 2.8 CTS. Both listed at about 220 hp. I have never tested my 1965 Corvair on this run. Well, why bother. I should probably do it anyway just for the record.

    Here is the kicker. The 3.2 would indicate 80 mph on that run when I bought it three years ago. Now it routinely runs indicate 90 mph. I maintain I have a purple people eater in my car port! Prugna Metalica! A Special Build? probably not.

    These are not cars for the faint of heart. If I wanted a Ferrari and were more faint of heart then I already am I would buy one I could drive to the garage then keep it there and look at it. There is nothing wrong with that approach. Nothing at all..... After three years of various dramas I might finally park mine and look at it too. In my case we do have 15,000 miles of history though. AND finishing of my third set of tires! In my case I do not mind sharing my goofball stuff but I do have some spurs as well.


    PPS: IMHO important. I add 8oz of either synthetic 2cycl or Marvel Mystery Oil. I want a light oil film over everything the fuel ever touches. Because these days ethenol is also trying to get at them.
     
  19. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 Veteran
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    @Rapalyea

    How often are you adding 8oz of fluid? I'm assuming you meant upon filling the gas tank, each time maybe?

    Also, I've let the idle run-up regiment do it's thing (since it actually works haha) on my 2-Valve, then until she's warm, I keep her out of first as much as possible, and run around 2-3K RPMs. When driving around these back roads, usually I'm shifting at 4,500-5,500, and cruising around 3,500, though in obvious downshifts I may sing up above 6,000, do you think that's too harmful?

    What regiment might I add to A) a full tank of gas and B) every 1,000 or so miles?

    Anything in particular that might bring longevity? I'm at approx. 24,150 miles on the car, with a fresh set of belts, cam seals, checked valves, shift shaft seal etc.
     
  20. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie

    Apr 25, 2010
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    I add 1 ounce per gallon of Marvel Mystery Oil to 90 octane ethanol free fuel for my Mondial

    Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk
     
  21. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

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    I used to use MMO every few tankfuls, CIS and early Bosch stuff loves it. Haven't had anything old enough to use MMO in, but I was always happy with it.
     
  22. Russ Gould

    Russ Gould Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2004
    925
    Oh no! I am really cut up about that :(

    Okay okay, Mondials are great!
     
  23. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #70 paulchua, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Russ, it's totally cool if you don't like Mondials. Everybody is of course entitled to their opinion. You like the 2002 BMW Turbo and your the 2012 Jetta over the Mondial. I say good for you sir! Drive both of them in good health, and I mean that sincerely.

    If you say you don't like it because it's ugly (I put up no contest, heck I like certain works of Picasso that make most folks cringe) If you say you don't like it because it was unreliable to you (I believe you, these are exotics after all, the 8 had what? 700 examples total, plus many were neglected) If you say you don't like it because they did not appreciate in value (agreed 100%)

    But please, please, if you a are going to be critical on performance, just be prepared to back up that up with objective sources on a Mondial enthusiast forum - that's all I ask. It admittedly is a touchy subject for me because for years, I've seen article after article denigrating the car mainly because of performance. I will be transparent and admit that certainly for the '8', (especially after a discussion I had with Mr. Bryan Crall) that for me the jury is still out. I have an open mind that MotorTrend's 1981 review was intentionally falsified.

    When Motor Trend said (and I quote)

    "The Mondial is a wink or two slower than the 308...1/4 mile in the low 16s terminal speeds favor the 308 by 2 MPH"

    that they were intentionally being deceitful with their reported stats:

    308GTSi
    0-60
    8.0
    1/4 Mile
    16.1

    Mondial 8
    0-60
    8.2
    1/4 Mile
    16.2

    I'm sincerely open to that possibility and that MotorTrend wrote a 'puff piece' for whatever reason.

    but...let me lighten up the party...I've recently heard fellow fchatters refer to odd ducks like me (Mondial enthusiasts) as "Mongos" (from Blazing Saddles)

    I loved it so much, I fired up Photoshop..

    :)
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  24. sidtx

    sidtx F1 Rookie
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    We need to officially adopt Mongo as our mascot!!!!

    Is there a way to add this photo to our subforum?

    Sid
     
  25. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran

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    #72 Sfumato, Jul 1, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  26. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    That movie is so great....got to watch it again this weekend
     
  27. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie

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    #74 Alden, Jul 3, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Mongo? Hmm, dunno, kind of reinforces a negative image of us.

    How about the Mongol leader, Genghis and his wife, Sylvia? ;-)
    Alden
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  28. kitreid

    kitreid Karting

    Feb 7, 2012
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    Your here, the car must of meant something to you?
     

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