Crisis hitting Vintage market? All signs are there

I really hate this thread. It is like a bad accident on the highway where you just have to slow down and look. I click on in hopes of seeing some info abut a car that sold or something interesting. I am looking forward to this market stablzing so I do not need to read posts by fenzoman. Every single post of his has been negative about Ferrari.

 

I've seen a few cars with them. I've also seen rear window defoggers and even a sun roof.

 

Mine has, but a rather rare option on a 275 gtb, more in the 330 and luxury cars. They work pretty well and are quite handy.

About the market going up (or down), it is now time to enjoy and drive the car rather than keep the princess in shape for the next auction. I think the real enthousiasts will keep the cars away from the market and mainly crap or much lesser cars will show up, causing even a higher (but relevant) decrease in market direction opinion. I am always looking for interesting cars but the last few month none showed up. And those who did are sold very good (or introduced in a mist, like the 250 Europa..

And Matt, indeed Fenzoman (or whoever) is pretty negative all the time, probably a dealer with need for fleed....But start counting the value only when you want to sell, for now, buy a Dino!

ciao
Oscar

 

I believe that Battista Pininfarina's personal 275 had a sun roof were there others?

 

I saw one in NY with one but not sure how many there were. Looked a bit ugly to me for some reason.

 

Hello Onno,
Driving one is even better......Although it misses some torgue but in the (very) high rev's the sound and feeling is very nice. But I must admit that next to a (5 years older!) 275 gtb the Dino is a smaller and less emotional car to drive. Besides this, the looks are fantastic...

(nothing to do with the money and market)

ciao
Oscar

 

Hello Oscar: Comparing a 275GTB V12 vs a Dino 246 V6, I am sure the V12 is the big brother. My understanding was that Dino, albeit with lesser torque, was made with intent as high reving use, where the car is the happiest. Front V12 vs mid V6 are different categories with different intent and purpose. Needless to say, both are wonderful. Forgot to mention that the earlier Dino 206 had even less torque than 246 and consequently 206 is a very high rev happy automotive experience. Just my opinion. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

Hi Jimmy,
(isnt Japan sleeping right now?). Of course it is comparing apples and pears...But anyway it keeps the attention of these hopeless discussion about markets, prices, future ans glass bowls. I see you have a nice collection yourself and you should know the difference between a v6 and v12. The first time I drove an older car than the Dino I was amazed by the driving experience. Much more intense than expected (and more classy/racey/emotion than the Dino). Don't get me wrong, the Dino is great fun and very forgiven to drive.
ciao
Oscar

 

Good morning Oscar: It is 08:30 AM Nov. 15, here in Japan. Would love to "fall into the older F cars". Little out of my means at this moment. Hopefully in the future. Yes, I agree these "older" cars are very involving and I love the "total balance" of the driving experience. Your collection is something I would love to look forward to. Thank you for the reply. w/ smiles Jimmy

 

I've been watching this Lusso on eBay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-250-GT-L-Lusso-1964-Ferrari-250-GT-L-Lusso_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a10Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1308QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem160298020171QQitemZ160298020171QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks.

It was offered for sale without a buyer before it hit eBay. The dealer is a knowlegable striaight up person. The car is a fine older restoration. There have been 5 rejected offers and the car sits. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with this car.

I recieved this email on 10/21/08 on the same car:

This Ferrari 250 GT/L "Lusso" was a normal production model ordered and sold new by the authorized Ferrari Dealer, Charles Rezzagi (Rezzagi Motors, San Francisco, California.)

The original colors were red with a black interior. (During restoration the interior was changed to tan.)

The original owner is not known but the second owner was Oakland, California resident and well know Ferrari Collector / Enthusiast Wiliam S. Hook.

Hook owned and maintained this Ferrari from 1966 until July of 1993 when it was acquired by Bruce Trennery's Fantasy Junction in Emeryville, California and then offered for resale with this description:

"1964 Ferrari 250GT/L Lusso, red with black interior. Purchased in California in 1966 by present owner. Rebuilt engine, new paint and leather, and rebuilt Borranis all within last 6,000 miles. Excellent unmolested example with tools and records.

In December of 2003 the car was sold by Micheal Sheehan to a client in Japan.

In 2007, purchased by our company in Japan and then sold to a long-term West-Coast client.

This Ferrari Lusso was recently traded back to us and now available for inspection, purchase and world-wide delivery.

This is a completely documented, four-owners from new, "matching number" example that has covered 77,359 miles since new.
It is fully restored from "front to back, top-to-bottom" and in need of nothing but a new home.

Offered at $795,000 or approximately £450,000 / 590,000 Euros. (This Ferrari is approved for EEC importation at only 5% VAT and is duty free.)

Please email or ring me for a complete set of inspection photos or to discuss additional details regarding the possible purchase of this Ferrari

Warm regards,





The price has been lowered south of 100k.

I believe something is going wrong with the market and this is just the loosening of the denial.

 

This thread is no good.. The more headlines and the more negative things we see written the more likely it is that it will happen.. Better not to write anything..



n

 

I find it amusing that people's ego's are such that they believe that posting about prices going up or down somehow affects the market at-large. Conversly, I find it surprising that some think that what others say about pricing trends on F-Chat can affect the market overall. The market is much more diverse, large, and unmovable than that and F-Chat threads have, if anything, minute effect on overall market prices. Whether it is talked about or not on this or any internet forum will neither make it so, nor keep it from happening.

 

damn Alberto; I'm crushed! Are you sure about this?


Tritone

 

not about egos.. its market psychology.. If every paper and media writes about a market dropping.. People will act accordingly and so the market will drop ( any market)

Ni

 

Someone mentioned Japan.. How is that market now?... it seems a bit a sleep doesnt it? Has the money gone?
Euro has gone up 15 per cent against the dollar since this summer so not so cheap for us anymore to shop in the Us.

N

 

Profound!!

 

Maybe in Sweden.

 

I'd agree there's little to be gained from a series of guys posting "The market has tanked" but discussing recent auction results, asking prices and generally informed market discussion must be of value.
There's little point in trying to stifle that discussion particularly at a time when there's change taking place. Seems obvious there's no single F-car market and thus inevitable a thread appear for each individual group of interest from vintage to new. Trick is to focus on actual results, imho.

 

good results here,not great prices but cars sold "the DD Lotus F1 cars" Bonhams goodman.

 

Yes the sale went well. Current exchange rate may have helped a bit.

http://www.bonhamsandgoodman.com.au/auctions_catalogues.php?auction=280&offset=50

Results for each lot at bottom of individual lot detail pages.

 

$485K AUD for a Vantage Volante Aston is a VERY cheap price. Those have sold for almost $2MM USD!! That one was a screaming bargain.

In USD all of them were.

http://www.bonhamsandgoodman.com.au/lot_details.php?lot=71393&view=results&year=2008&offset=0

Cheers!