Countach - Wing Or No Wing?

Probably a repost.


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Yes that’s the one. Probably more a point of difference to “all the other Countach’s” than to serve any practical purpose, but what do I know.

One thing I definitely know is those Kyosho diecast models are fast become genuinely collectible. I have no plans on selling my gold one though!

 

Favorite qualities usually mentioned for a 400LP - “Clean” “slim” “narrow”. Wolf or not, that thing should go.

 

Mixed on the wing....I love the eighties excess look of the wing, thats what most remember, but the car looks great without one also. Decisions.....Decisions.....Decisions

 

When i looked to trade my Ferrari 328 on the wingless DD in Sweden back in 88/89. I was at the time already trying to get a wing innstalled before doing the dealthis was the 80s and wings where an absolute must. I had a 83 Pantara gt5. With factory widebody and a huge wing. Would tie my snow skis to the bottom of the wing and up against the rear glass. Fun fun big hair and stonewashed jeans and neon colored ski clothes. Good times

 

Front wing on a US bumper car @ 1:43

 

Just to clarify My last comments.. I meant the roof wing on the LP 400.
As for the red Qv in the video- all I can say is Wrong wing on the Wrong car and looks ALL
WRONG. At least it doesn’t look permanently mounted so an easy fix.

 

My LP400S had the original metal over foam wing, now it is off. The issue then becomes where to safely store it. Currently it sits in my parent's basement (I hope mom does not use it as an ironing board). Before and after photos attached. I actually liked the Lamborghini supplied wing on that car, but will keep it in storage until I figure out the corrosion issue on a permanent basis.

My 5000S had a pudgy fiberglass Burtoni wing when I bought it (completely different looking) which was quickly removed (the car was originally delivered wingless). I may buy a 70s Chevy custom van with airbrushed artwork on the side to mount it on however.
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Bravo, looks so much better on your LP400S.

BTW you’ll never permanently eliminate the corrosion issues unless you start from scratch and remanufacture a new wing using different materials which do not allow the effects of moisture damage.

Nothing is permanent, but he drilled holes into the original hood and bolted the wing onto it! Anyone who is familiar knows it is a non-stressed panel so unless he mounted supporting beams underneath it, this application underscores the silliness of front wings. Either way, repairing, refurbishing and repainting the unit properly is not my idea of an easy fix.

 

[QUOTE="joe sackey, post:
Nothing is permanent, but he drilled holes into the original hood and bolted the wing onto it! Anyone who is familiar knows it is a non-stressed panel so unless he mounted supporting beams underneath it, this application underscores the silliness of front wings. Either way, repairing, refurbishing and repainting the unit properly is not my idea of an easy fix.[/QUOTE]

Matter of opinion and experience i guess as it doesnt scare me.. sure beats tackling the long slots made to accommodate the front style of wing on the CBR car (not that THAT style would need fixing)LOL

 

I have read the threads on dissolving the foam core with acetone, etc, but as it will be next to impossible to exactly match 39 year old black paint it does not seem a fixable situation, regardless of the approach used. The carbon replica wings someone here makes do have some appeal.

 

going fast very fast without stability isnt a good thing... going marginally slower top speed with surefootedness is better. its a formula that is still valid in today's world.

a few more important facts:

*john wyre's chief engineer John Horseman adapted his porsche 917 long-tail with tin snips and duck tape and tested it without a wind tunnel. it improved 917 aero stability immensely from a car certain factory tester wouldnt drive to an all dominate winner.

*the extensively wind tunnel tested factory developed 917 long-tails reverted to john's short tail modification that became archetypal the 917K or Kurzheck for short tail that we all know so well.

*large rear wings or stanchions moves the center of pressure to a more favorable location longitudinally for more stability whether it add downforce or reduces drag or not.

*yes the boy-racer supplementary fitment slow the car down as much as 40 kph on the mulsanne, however with its dangerous high speeds handling characteristics it never achieved its ultimate goal as a LM winner. It was the 917 K short-tails and not the 917 L's won most if not all the 917 races based on an unofficial application.

although im a huge Bauhaus fan, sometimes more is more. having said all that, i whole heartily agree with you, no wing !

 

Come to think of it, you are absolutely right, anyone who thinks it's cool to cut long slot holes or drill large bolt holes through a Countach's body panels would of course consider reversal an easy fix.

You make an eloquent case for ground-effects as engineered, extensively developed, and wind-tunnel tested applied in competition successfully by respected Motorsports World Champions Porsche Ag.

Unfortunately, none of the provenance of Porsche Ag's aerodynamics can be applied to the wings used on Countachs, none of which have ever been tested to prove anything one way or another by Lamborghini, a company with a zero Motorsports record at the time.

Additionally, the Countach wings were not Homologated for road use, an important fact, bearing in mind that the Countach is strictly a road car.

It's worth noting though that most of the top speed tests of Countach Downdrafts featured cars with no wings, the Factory (183 mph), Auto Motor und Sport (185 mph), Sport Auto (183 mph), Road & Track (188 mph) and Fast Lane (191 mph).

All that said, as with the result of this poll this far, I agree with you wholeheartedly, no wing.

One more reason to abandon them.

On the other hand, as I have said many times before, I get why people like them, as they make a statement.

 

Was the usual process for the dealer to offer it as an option which if chosen, the factory would install before it left the factory, or did the dealer drill the holes and install it? Old photos show the car being built - I am struggling to recall any assembly line pictures where the car has a wing installed, probably because it is the last thing installed before the test drive?

Did the factory build a supply of wings or order them from a supplier? I recall hearing something about a third party, but could be wrong.

The only reason I would restore the wing to the LP400S is that it was delivered with it when new; ironically it would probably be a replacement carbon fiber wing matching the original type (which sort of defeats the purpose).

 

I remember a 5000S being tested (against a Porsche 911 Turbo 3.3 I think) with a top speed of 157 mph by a UK mag. The drag from the wing was given as one of the reasons for the reduced top speed IIRC.

 

It wasn't a top speed number that dropped my jaw concerning the Countach, it was the outrageous styling. I was 16 in 1980 and a local business man drove one, a 78 400S with a moody wing. Whatever causes the eyes to pop, the jaw to drop, the Countach has it! For me, the wing was a feature that added to the cars extreme attraction.
Wing or no wing, there is no wrong way!

I've owned mine 17 years now, no wing corrosion.


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What year / model? I am no expert but have not seen side plates like that.

 

joe, i think you are missing the point. both the 917 and a later case with 73 targa florio winning RSR were modified and confirmed first solely based on the drivers "seat of the pants" feel and a stop watch. in the 73 911 RSR case, an ungainly looking "mary stewart" monstrosity spoiler was quickly fabricated around the ducktail since the was lacking enough for proper axle balance. this was done all BEFORE any areo engineers at the factory got involved according to late paul frere. only after winning the race the devices were confirmed of its merits aerodynamically.

as far as porsches Ag's provenance (well it wasnt really them but John wyre's group with duct tape enlighten them) ,yes the learnings can and are applied to wings on the CT or any other car. porsche was shown that sacrificing top speed as much as down 40km/h at LM, was more than a worthwhile trade off to improved the overall performance envelope of the vehicle in order to create a winner. an audi TT was also an worthwhile trade off in the other direction as well for sake of design purity. just dont intent to ring it on the autobahn or it might end up on its roof...

lamborghini may have zero experience at the time but didnt wolf confirmed himself that the red and blue P7 wolf CT's with the large rear wing were more of a development of dallara and the gruppo 5 racer/test driver Sterzil rather than lamborghini? now dallara did leave lamborghini to pursue racing. before his return to developed the wolf Ct's, dallara design the detomaso F2, F1 car with frank williams, the Gr 4 pantera that set qualifying the lap record at LeMans,and the lancia stratos rally car that was winning everything in sight. 50 years later dallara is still at it building racecars. I like to believe he knew what he was doing.

this pic posted of the winning 73 targa florio car was also never homologated or aero tested. the areo appendages was the glaring reason why it was relegated to the prototype class rather than the expected group 4. personally by looks alone, im thankful i didnt see these things on the road.

imo, shouldnt a sports car be a bit more than straight line numbers? a rear wing can enable it to brake better, corner harder and add stability just in case you may sneeze at high speeds.

nobody here is disputing the wing wont add drag, weight or decrease top speed but to coin the ct wing a brash statement like "It's a useless appendage, a boy-racer supplementary fitment that only serves to add weight and slow the car down, and given that Countachs are there to go very fast, that's not a good thing." may be a bit much.

all the best

 

Were the mounting points the same as the Pantera's? 1 or 2 have told me that my fake wing was a Pantera but I doubted that. I don't think it lines up the same.

Who was making wings back in the 80's? It is not cheap knock off. When my car was painted I refinished the wing and had it painted, just for the fact that I received the car with it. When stripped, very nicely made.

 

Gary Hall, of Hall Pantera sold a few. Incidentally he did own a Countach. The real from the replica should be easy to tell. They did not make any in aluminum aftermarket that I have ever seen.

I removed the wing from my Jalpa, but it was some sort of aftermarket version, not even close to an original. The funny part about that one is almost every single time a girl walked up to that car, they would put their hand on the wing. If I was a single guy I would have kept it, just for that. lol.

 

The wing obviously adds downforce. Whether this works or not, you'd have to ask someone who's driven one with or without wing at mega-speeds. But, from a looks point of view, it's totally boy-racer.

 

The entire car is boy racer. It is what it is. Being subtle is not a Countach trait. Can you think of any other car that has been on more teenage bedroom posters?