Cost to run a 488 Challenge or challenge car

I'd inquire with any dealer running the series. I've heard from 25 up to 80 for the 458. Then you could write it off in a racing incident.

 

this topic has been covered a lot here.... based on my actual Challenge series experience going across many years, some things to think about

1) Racing vs. DE stuff. Racing will cost more assuming you want to be competitive, as you'll need to invest more time into testing, and take a more focused effort at improving the car and you as a driver. DE you can relax, enjoy the car, perhaps worry less about ultimate lap time.

2) can you do the repair, maintenance and setup yourself? have tools, equipment (including a Ferrari DEIS or VCI computer) and desire to do it? (this is Fchat user Joeyung, still my hero for doing this.)

If you're racing, an average race weekend will run you $50-55K, not including family travel, not including a great coach, and not including any maintenance parts (pads) or crash damage ($$$$). What you will get it a professional team, one that can get the car dial in and set up, and likely get you to get the most out of it. Crew chief, engineer, fuel and tires, spotters, typically an electronics expert and bodywork guy on most teams.

As for crash damage, what's the old saying? you can't cause $20K of crash damage to a Miata or a ferrari. Most teams are good at repairing, which can keep the costs down, but when your suspension is bent....you need to buy parts.

A typical test day (smaller crew) can run $10-12K. Typically crew chief, engineer and fuel/tires support plus transport. The variable for test days is tires....as the spec Pirellis have a relatively short sweet spot and a generally short life. Worn Pirelli DH tires on a 458C are actually a safety issue; not worth saving a few bucks on tires vs. spinning off into the barrier.

If you are doing DIY DE stuff, assuming you have the equipment and knowledge, running costs are cheap. 458C's tend to get 3 miles/gallon when run hard, race gas is $10/gal most places. You'll need 2 sets of tires for a full day depending on your driving style, that's $5500 (BTW you'll want 2-3 sets of extra wheels). The biggest wear items aside from tires are brake pads; we went through 1.25 sets of pads per race weekend; some tracks (Montreal) more, so others (Daytona) less. So I'd guess $7K/day. These cars like frequent brake bleeding; at race weekends, I got one after every session as i preferred a firm and consistent pedal. For DE use, you can do at the end of the day.

A friend once told me calulated all-in costs for racing a 458C ended up being $200+/km car included.

Maintenance? you will want to a full nut and bolt on the car almost every day, and at least an inspection, an alignment check, inspect dampers, frequent full fluids changes. Annual maintenance for our car included radiators and coolers, hoses, fuel injector removal/cleaning, intake cleaning, and frequently lower control arms and balljoints (if you run over curbs a lot). Of course, you can do less, the question is where you draw the line....these cars doing 175mph is not where you want something coming loose.

Having shared all that, they are wonderful cars to drive. the 458C was difficult to get into a good setup window; the Evo had much better performance, but also had a more narrow window to get the setup right.

 

first off, racing is expensive. second, to be competitive is more expensive - the car, the support, and training the driver (most important) - and when you talk about a pretty high level of racing, yes the dollars get big.

On the other hand, running a full weekend in an MX5 Cup in a regional race, or racing a Cayman in PCA, or even an older Ferrari in CCR is significantly cheaper, and having done all the above, racing is fun. You can scratch that itch in many ways....there is no "one best way".

If you want to see heart-stopping expensive, take a look at the GT3 programs (GTD, PWC, Euro Blancpain). On the other hand, my daughter can do 2 full days in her miata $2-4K?

Challenge (or Lambo Trofeo, of Porsche GT3 Cup) are all pretty intensive series. Of the 3, Challenge is the one where you are more likely going to suffer from the implications of the back side of the bell curve on drivers. Many of the one-make series are more interested in getting their "never been on track before" customers into a 600hp GT car and that's like taking a student pilot and putting them into an F-15 - forget about crashing yourself, it's about who you run over when you try and start a pass from 10 car lengths back

 

Remember it is Ferrari. Everything about Ferrari is absurd to the normale. That's why they use words like speciale.

 

Once again Entropy is right on the money with his estimates. My reply is simple. It is very expensive to race any series.

 

Did you honestly think it would be possible to run a brand new start of the art racing machine costing three hundred thousand dollars (approx) for minimal expense ?

If you want a slick equipped Ferrari track rat the 360 & especially 430 Challenge cars work out way cheaper in every direction particularly as (I think) there's no professional support obligation race series

See here to race Challenge Club Racing Championship - FerrariChat.com

 

Track rat? Geez, where's the love? But your point is spot on. The 360C is a bargain to run and have a blast in. Those old steel brakes are still pretty amazing along with the rest of the package.

 

That is a great answer thanks much.

Now I've seen the new 488 challenge and spent the week end in Daytona, I have the itch for a challenge car.

Prior to racing a car, I guess you need to learn how to drive them properly. Once passed the basics of tracking on possibly lesser cars, I would assume it takes a good 2-3 year of tracking 10-15 week ends/year your car (not racing) to learn how to properly handle it in a race.

Are there structures that can take care of the logistic of your very own challenge car, transport it, mechanics during the week end, source the parts and consumable for you, provide teacher to drive next to you all day?

Without the structure cost and excluding the car itself, to make sure I understand your post properly, you experience of the cost of consumables (gas, tires, breaks..) of tracking your car (not racing) to 8k per day, am I correct?

 

I hope I did not start another "real men only drive manual gearboxes" thread here.

A few thoughts - and as I noted in my post, there are a LOT of ways to go racing for less money.....MX5 Cup is great, SCCA/et al Spec Miata is a bargain, NASA......if you want to race a Ferrari, CCR is awesome and 360/430's are lower cost to acquire, about the same to maintain (yes, really) but the CCR structure is more about fun and less about hyper competitiveness.

To be very clear, Pirelli DH tires are $2500/set plus mounting, you buy them from Pirelli, and they are the same tires on a number of other cars.

Also, most of the expense in racing does not go to Ferrari....the entry fees are actually a bargain (yes, really), but the support, maintenance, logistics, et al go to independent professional race teams. I think in Challenge NA there are only 2 real 'in house" teams; Risi and Scuderia Corsa (FoBH).

Yes, racing is expensive. "How fast can you afford to go?"

As stated above, in the US there are a number of actual, professional teams that can help you set up, maintain, repair, support, transport, et al your car. Any of the Challenge teams can do that, and there are plenty of non-Challenge shops that can go a long way. The 458 required some "tribal knowledge" to dial in, and some proprietary electronics (VCI), which at some point are required. A good team will also have mastery at using the data logging system, which you will want to know how to improve as a driver. I have a lot of friends who have modern Challenge cars they use for DE only, which they love (and the cars are awesome), they rely on one of these teams/shops to take care of them. Biggest trick sometimes is logistics - where the shop is, where you are, and where/when you want to drive.

Consumables for a track day (testing)? I'd estimate $3-500 for fuel, 2 sets of tires ($5500), and a proportional amount of brake pads. Obviously a lot depends on the track, how hard you drive, how much you drive, etc etc.

Every now and then you'll have to do maintenance items (eg. bushings, radiators, rotors). The rotors can be shockingly expensive, but 458C rotors are actually cheaper than 430C rotors. I averaged $12K in maintenance parts each year, but our team is very aggressive on maintenance (which I like) and we drove a lot (6K kms a year plus). You can judge your own accounting, it's hard to live with these cars without airjacks, wheel guns, alignment tools, et al.

Nothing sucks more than being at a race track in a nice 458C and having the TCS or ABS alarm go off, and you have no way to diagnose or clear it. You're essentially done for the day

We have a few members of our local track that drive 458C's for DE, they essentially have the local dealer (who has a tech who is also on our race team) prep and setup the car, they flatbed it up, he'll hire someone to help with the car during the day, then it's packed up until next time. He's driving, having fun, not racing.

BEST place to spend money regardless of car is 1) a great coach 2) seat time - whether miata or Ferrari

 

Entropy's answers are always such a pleasure to read. You can tell he knows what he is writing about.

 

+1

 

+1
Yes, he absolutely does (know what he is talking about). We also miss his presence in the paddock, as well as the grid. Come home soon, buddy.

 

+1

I always enjoy his every word...

Robb

 

wow - thanks for the kind words. You get what you give....

Nathan Dunning, you're a good man

 

The VCI is a must to run a 458.

 

Who was the stud with the 355 Challenge when you raced in CCR? 😄

 

Good times. My steering rack fell off my car in race two at turn 16. I was in first place. You did great for your first time at Sebring. I saw Onofrio last weekend at the Ferrari World Finals. He was driving a 333SP.

 

Those were the good ole days for sure! Remember Franco and John handing out the cash that event...classic!

Looking at the times, we got way faster in 2012 & 2013....Mark Mckenzie did a 2:08.9 in a 430 (track record), and Peter Castellana did a 2:14.5 in a 360 (track record).