Cost of classic car ownership in France and Italy

Midi pyrenees is beautiful area, lots of agriculture. Property and land is affordable so I can't imagine running a classic would be terribly pricey there as it's so rural in most parts. Fuel is of course a lot more there. Check with Aston Lark for insurance.

 

I live in the Haute Pyrenees (dept 65) Great place to live, not too many people, well priced property and with a bit of research plenty of properties with fantastic views of the Pyrenees. I have a Triumph TR6 which i imported into France in 2015. It was before brexit so some rules have changed for the english importing into France but from your username i deduce you are from NZ. I was lucky enough to spend a month there on south Island with relatives just before Covid struck in January 2020. Met some great car people there with classics and customs and also met your police force who politely gave me a ticket for speeding - just, but I digress
Classics in France only have to have a CT (mot/gov test) every 5 years, everyday cars are tested every two years. No road tax to pay, I have a classic car insurance policy with AXA and pay about 250 euro full cover. When you bring a classic into the country it is best to apply to register it through FFVE as it will be then classed as "historic" on the cars log book and you will get the cheaper insurance etc
https://www.ffve.org

You will also have to pay a French "expert" valuer to value your car for insurance purposes

Do not try try to import a late model "supercar" as you will be hit with an eyewatering Taxe Maleuse bill (ask me how I know!!!)

there are plenty of local classic car clubs you can join once you arrive here (English or French)

Any other questions please feel free to ask

kc

 

Forgot to say, there will be a small import tax to pay, cars over 15 years old providing the CV fiscal power (not HP) is not too high will be about 400 euro + about 30 euro for a set of plates, and a CT for about 70e. There is an app you can have on your phone to test the cost of importation and also a website, will insert it when I find it. I believe under the new regulations you must have French residency to import a car

kc

 

Northern Italy is rich in the classic car scene…….Obviously!
Lots of events / rallye s at club level and serious Mila Miglia stuff and lots in between .
Plenty of artisan support.
Alps and lakes have a certain attraction .

 

Ps the French hate the Brits .Any Eng speaking inc Americans and you will be tarred with the same brush .
How ever the Italians love Brits and give versa and welcome you with a open heart .

You don’t see it holidaying in Fr .

 

Sorry, but saying that the French hate the brits is stupid, plain and simple: because it's wrong. It might have been true in the past, when few French people spoke or understood a modicum of english, but certainly not true today. So many french regions such as Dordogne, Brittany, etc...have benefited from the money of the british pensioneers, in the form of rehabilitation of old houses, etc...that we feel grateful for them. Perhaps, in some very remote rural places in the country an english-speaking person might be seen as a strange animal, but certainly not in any town or city today. We all have british friends.
I know, and have witnessed during the last weeks, the traditional play between our governements about the supposed "hereditary opposition", but the truth is that nobody cares anymore.

To the O.P: should you decide for France (although Italy is very attractive also, probably the nicest country in the world) my only advice would be to carefully think about where you want to settle down.
Only two thoughts here:
- Real estate prices have started to rise in the most attractive locations (close to the seas, close to the main train stations, etc...) due to the last two years of lock-down, when many parisians (with their higher salaries) have been attracted towards secondary homes. Conversely, lower real estate price usually mean that you will be in a more remote place, or have a lot of rehabilitation work to finance.
- in some places in France, especially deep down in the country, remoteness means difficult winters, when you can feel quite lonely and abandoned, unless you were born there. Think about the Winter first, not about the Summer.
Although I suppose that as far as real estate prices go, the italian Lake region is probably second to none.

Rgds

 

My wife and I engaged in similar deliberations; we ended up in Italy because keeping assets over a certain amount in France can trigger taxation issues. Not sure of what cars you are considering moving over, but our cars would have definitely put us over the limit. Taxation and registration of a vintage car in Bologna is easy, but you need to have residency and will need to get an Italian driver’s license (I had to take the driving test which was easy, but the theory test was not available in English).

As a Canadian, many people assume I am American, but everyone is quite nice (and English is pretty widely spoken). Getting help, such as finding an obscure part for your old Italian car, is actually a fun way to spend a day.

Driving an old Ferrari around Emilia Romagna and Tuscany is also not so bad.

 

Do you have such simple ideas about everyone in the world ?

 

My wife and I have only been to Paris twice and nothing but a positive experience each time. People have been wonderful. Been trying to get back there since March of last year but the pandemic keeps raising havoc with travel plans.

More I think about this I can’t help but see the parallel and laugh. I’ve been asked a few times how it is to live with Native Americans? My response has been, nothing but positive but you bring an attitude into the community and they will certainly accommodate you and said attitude.

 

Even if it does not look quite possible these days with the new "Omicron" variant, I would be happy to invite you for lunch or dinner next time you come across the Atlantic, if our schedule meet, etc, etc...do not hesitate to let me know. But for the time being, well...it seems quite remote...

Rgds

 

how much is a modest house on Lake Garda? lake front.

 

Would very much enjoy that, thank you! Yes, the way this pandemic is playing out we might be shaking hands when I’m 90.

 

My 82 Countach is 'Euro 0' which means it had no catalytic converters when it was sold new in Germany. The original air pump is missing and the silencer is not stock.

You will need to get a homologation certificate from the manufacturer to prove that your vintage car meets the legal requirements which applied when it was new; in my case Lamborghini stated that my car was made for the EU market.

In Italy, you will need to join the national historical car club (ASI) through a local classic car club in your local area; the 'expert' of the club will compose a report addressed to the local motor registry office, confirming that the car is a genuine example of its type which is of historical interest.

Once registered in Italy as a historic car, annual inspections are for safety; if your car meets the emissions requirements as they existed when it was built it should not be an issue.

 

In France for cars before 72 the emissions are almost non-existent, after that they are a bit more strict but nothing too unachievable. The key is to find the tester who all the local classic car people use, he is generally more sensible and amenable about the emissions although he does use the computer, some of the readings can be "massaged". He will however be strict on safety type things as the test is every 5 years. The test is only once every 5 years for historic (over 30 years old) so never really an issue. Exhaust mods are not usually worried about
kc

 

Not exactly...

All cars over 30 years old are not necessarly classified as "historics": you need to apply for a car to be classified as "historic"; if you don't apply, that car, even being more than 30 years old is registered, insured, and controled as any other car, i.e, a technical inspection every two years.
Both my 328s are now over 30 years old, and neither is registered as "historic", so they have their mandatory technical inspection evey two year. Being "non-catalysed", they are not supposed to comply with today's emission regulations FOR THE TIME BEING, but that might change; when the emissions are checked and analysed, on the technical certificate it is written: "non catalysed car - then the pollution/emission index as actually measured - then: "Acceptable"; and it has been so for the last 15 years, even when the cars (both 1989) were not 30 years old. (I don't see any point in having the cars registered as "historics" because they have always been accepted at the standard technical inspection, so I don't mind having one inspection evey two years instead of one every five years).

Exhaust mods, I wouldn't bet on today's tolerance during the "contrôle technique" to last for long, as more and more the authorities are pushing for stricter noise control; as soon as the motorcycle problem is checked, it will probably be the automobiles (especially for the big scooters in the cities: most of them have been modified with aftermarket exhausts to make more noise, and the result is that they are now making too much noise, to the point that almost every citizen is complaining about these and their noise, especially during the nights, so the authorities are now much less tolerant: aftermarket exhausts are only a tolerance, the law is that only the stock exhaust as certified by the manufacturer, or any other exhaust equally certified are acceptable; aftermarket exhausts that are not certified are in theory forbidden, and any motorised vehicle controlled above the noise limit for which its engine and exhaust have been certified, must revert to stock equipment at once )

Engine mods are normally forbidden from an insurance point of view: the car must be fully compliant with its original condition, as it has been certified originally for road use, under that precise definition; if that compliance to the original definition is altered, you must forewarn the insurer and obtain his approval. Most people who modify engines don't, but it means that if the insurer has knowledge of previous modifications that were not disclosed, he is allowed to declare the contract "nul and void". (Remember that the Ferrari 328 for instance, in its days when new, had to be re-certified again by the french department for road safety when the front suspension design was changed in 1988; any car that does not anymore satisfy its original specification in full is not allowed to be driven on open roads and cannot be insured)

Rgds