Anybody here have any experience with these American Ferraris? Are certain models more prized than others? Dr "Don't ask why I want to know" Who
dale http://www.corvaircenter.com/ http://www.corvair.org/csachap.html It was my mom's favorite car (second fav was her GT 350 Mustang and Third was her Opel) Mom's cool (or at least was in the day)
I'm a Corvair guy and have been for over 20 years. Will be glad to answer any questions here or offline. Basics: Two basic divisions 1960-1964 and the more Camaro-looking cars 1965-1969. Main difference between the two series is the earlier cars have swing axle rear suspensions while the later cars have an exceptionally good full IRS. 1964 has a modified swing axle which makes it the best handling of the initial generation. I've owned nearly every year and model. Body Styles: 1960-1964 Sedan 1960-1964 Coupe 1962-1969 Convertible 1965-1969 Pillarless Coupe 1965-1967 Pillarless Sedan 1961-1965 Pickups and Vans 1961-1964 Station Wagon Engines: 2 carb low performance, 2 carb high performance, 4 carb (big valve) high performance, and draw-through turbos. 140-145 CID 1960-63, 164 CID 1964-1969. Trans: 2 sp Powerglide, 3 speed manual, 4 speed manual From a performance standpoint, the best cars are the Spyders (turbo) from 1962-1964, and the Corsa (turbo and 4 carb models with full IRS). 1965-1966. (Sport model dropped in '67 to protect Camaro sales, but normal "Monza" models could be equipped like a Corsa except for the turbo) Turbos have load of lag and drivability issues, but are awesome on the highway; the 4-carbs (called 140's) are what most of us run and most will easily outrun the more powerful turbo to 60mph.. Special models: Fitch Sprint (1964-1967) cars with high performance mods and styling cues marketed by John Fitch. Yenko Stinger (1966-1969) Very rare Yenko Stinger models made on the Shelby Mustang model for SCCA racing purposes. All 140's/ 4sps, but some with close ratio gearboxes and lower rear ends. Most sedans are very unloved (and unvalued) while most convertibles and coupes with performance options are very desirable. 1968 and 1969 (while rare) have horrible build quality. 1969 convertibles very rare and valuable. 1964 Spyder convertibles are the highest valued of the early cars. 1960's are really almost pre-production cars, are very different from 1961's, and as such have a following themselves (I've owned several... my favorite "early") All engines will fit into all cars, so if you want a killer 4-carb Stinger engine for your 1960 coupe, it will bolt right in. Rust is the #1 enemy; mechanicals and trim are so cheap that you should never waste your time on a rusty car. There is a very active Corvair performance community; many of these cars are still being actively campaigned. http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/fastvair/ $30k buys you the best Yenko Stinger, $150 will buy you a drivable sedan. Average Corsa coupe around $5k; average Corsa convertible about $7500 I play with all sorts of cars... Corvairs easily are the cheapest way into a vintage car, a cheap way into vintage racing, are easy to work on, and all parts (save for some rare high performance bits) are readily available AND cheap. See: www.corvair.org for the club and classifieds www.corvair.com for the biggest vendor www.corvairunderground for the next biggest vendor My current cars: http://fnader.com/images/CorsaCpe/ http://fnader.com/images/Corvair_Monza_Convertible_67/ http://fnader.com/images/YenkoStinger_YS116/ Bill
What ever happend to Ed? Was he the same guy who had the C5 as well? As far as corvairs, well I'm still trying to research them myself because I really do like them! The info I do know is that 65+ are the years you want to get because Chevy fixed the "suspension problem" that they had, and went to four wheel independent susp. They were also the first cars to have Flat-Six engines as well, and surprisingly enough got to the punch before Ferry did. I believe the 60-64s had 2.5ltrs, and in 65 got bumped to 2.7ltrs. On top of that, they also have aluminum blocks and heads to boot. I'd like to find a Turbo ver. but, if an NA one comes about that's in nice enough shape I might put that spooler on hold. I was surprised to find that their is a lot of support for these little guys, with 4wheel disc convs, short shifters, fiberglass and carbon fiber panels, cams, rods, pistons, and lots of susps goodies as well. I'd like to make one into a nice little weekend warrior myself. To bad I have to much other crap to deal with and I don't want to wait anylonger either, arggh. I've had my eye on Dave Binnies car for a long time, it's a real beauty.
Hey Bill, Do you know where any in car videos are readily available to download? I've been wanting to see and hear these cars in action for a while, but I haven't run across a video to download, preferably an in car one. I've seen only a very small handful of these cars on the street, but they are always drivin' by an old woman putzing around in it and won't get on it. By the way, the Corsa looks nice, and the license plate is hilarious!
Turbo verts are extremely valuable; mainly due to rareity. A 1966 Corsa Turbo vert is the highest valued production Corvair followed closely by the 1964 Spyder convertible (old body style) and the 1965 turbo convertible. You'll want to check with an expert to make sure you're buying the real thing and not a readily-made clone. But as i mentioned in my previous post, turbos have lots of issues. Dave Binnie is one of the most successful Corvair turbo guys out there...first thing he did was to scrap the turbo system and build one of his opwn. I have an engine that will put out nearly 300 (gross) hp... but it's a LONG way from stock. I think you'll find a 140 (4 carb big valve) hooked to a 4sp to be the best combination to own and drive. Add a HD suspension (under $200), decent shocks (under $300), performance exhaust (under $200), Kevlar brakes (under $200), and quick steering ($100-$500 depending on which route), a set of decent wheels and tires (cheap since they share the size and offset with the Camaro) and you've got a neat driver which will be just as much fun on the track or autocross course. Bill
Thanks... have you noticed that's my domain as well? ;-) I don't have any in-car stuff, but will ask for you. I didn't even mention all the carbon-fiber and fiberglass stuff available.... there is a whole cottage industry of go-fast bits for us out there: http://www.thesourceparts.com/ http://www.american-pi.com/ http://www.corvairmotorsports.com/ Unfortunately, the Corsa has aged a bit since then due to exploits like this: http://fnader.com/images/Corvair_Ice_Race/ and is ready for a cosmetic and mechanical refreshening.... Bill
If you wanted a more turnkey weekend warrior car and weren't concerned about being street legal, I would be willing to part with my track car... no longer an official Stinger, set up with a mild triple weber engine, 4 wheeled discs, several sets of wheels/tires, and ready for club days... and an SCCA logbook going back to the mid-70's if you wanted to bring it back to the track. Ferrari parts are expensive. ;-) Bill
Wow Bill, you know your stuff. Full disclosure here. I'm planning to drive a cool car (literally) to Monterey with my son this summer. Once we get there, I plan on selling it at one of the auctions. First thought is to buy an older Ferrari. Indeed, I have a line on a 330 GTC, but these cars have become too valuable for such nonsense. Second thought is to buy a late 60's drop-top Deville. Paint it red. Put some Shields and cowhorns on the car. Next thought is to buy a 240Z. I have even considered an Alfa GTV. But then I saw this Corvair on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4544053197&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 And it got me to thinking. I bet a nice Corvair would make an interesting car at the RM auction. You know, kinda like buying some popcorn at the movies. It would also be a cool way to say "chuck u" Nader. But... Can a Corvair make a 2,000 trip without problems? If I recall correctly, these car have a funky fan belt system where the belt has to take a 90 degree turn. Plus did these cars ever come with an A/C? It gets awful hot out der. I realize that I'm not going to make any money on this. This is not the point. Besides having some fun, there is the father/son thing. This will probably be his last summer home. Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated. Dale
Thanks for links. I've browsed around your site, and the links and pics too. I read a few rumors of guys custom fabing a Fuel Inj, sys, but didn't know one was readily available at the price a of a great cond 140 A Turbo Fuel Inj 65 has me salivating. I see one of the cars is intercooled, but doesn't look to be installed yet. Do most intercooled Corvairs mount them in the wheel well/side mount? I have driven my freinds 66' 911 and let me tell you that was a blast! Scooted along pretty good for it's age, and it sounded BAD ASS!! Wow, the sport exhaust it what I remember most about the car, it sounded great. Do the Corvairs flat sixes sound similar to that of the classic 911s by any chance? I know the firing order is different, but I'd suppose it wouldn't sound that much drastic. I just hope it doesn't sound like all those 3.4ltr Camaros running around with the mufflers cut off, bahhh! I thought read somewhere the Corvairs weigh around 2800-3000lbs is that true?
Wow...cool plan! You could get AC from 1962-1967 and with any engine except the turbo or the 1965 140. However, it's very rare and will drive up the value of any car by at least $1000 (more like $1500). Adding air is easy but will still cost you $1500 or so. I have never seen the need for AC... the Corvair has the best fresh air venitlation of any car I've owned. Reliability? In 20 years of driving Corvairs (often as my daily driver and often long distances, I've been stranded by one only twice... neither time carrying the basic tools I needed with me.) I have not been in my Corsa since the fall, but I'd jump in it right now and head towards California. But frankly, since it has short tires and a 3.55 diff, I'd rather spend an extra hour, replace the bad carb (bum rebuild) on my wifes Monza convertible (with tall tires and a 3.27 diff) and take it. (3.27's dull performance around town but help make for easy interstate cruising.) Neither of these is a turbo...which adds complexity that's not as easily repaired roadside. The fan belt is good to 7000 rpm... at which point throwing it becomes 50/50. I always carry 2 extra belts... and have never had to replace one. The ONLY times I've thrown belts has been (1) when I wasn't carrying a spare and (2) on the track (see "7000rpm" above...) I think to sell at an auction you'd want a convertible 4 speed. A turbo would add interest, but complicate the drive. 140's do have a habit of dropping valve seats, making a 2 carb engine by far the most reliable, but I frankly don't let this concern me... The Ebay car looks like a pretty decent deal (understanding that a professionally replaced top will be over $1000 and that doing one yourself is a nasty job...) but I would be concerned about "needs a tune-up". Generally this means that there is more of an issue... being a turbo I'd suspect the factory carb is cr*p (as they almost always are). Before you bid or buy, have a "corvair guy" check out the car for you. It's likely someone online actually knows the car... Bill
Bill, you have a PM. But if you know someone in the Austin area who can look at this car, I'd appreciate it. Dale
The Corvair engine sound is similar to a Porsche, but a little more "raw". Plus, we don't have the high rpm engines that Porsche has (we generally use somewhere arourd 6000 as redline... most use more like 5500). A Corvair is less of a poor man's Porsche and more like the closest thing the US ever built to a European sports sedan. I find a BMW 2002 to be more in the basic nature of the car.... Corvair coupes curb weight is around 2500, convertibles 2650 or so. Wet 2700-2800. Luckily the engine is tuned more for torque than power... so it doesn't feel that slow. Intercooling doesn't work on anything close to a factory setup as you can't intercool a draw-through system. Only guys that can intercool use blow-through systems (like Binnie) or fuel injection. There is not a cheap relaible fuel injection setup out there...and adding any injection adds a layer of complexity most of us would just as soon avoid. In my draw-through system I use large amounts of water (through my force-fed water injection system) to cool the mixture. I haven't even considered where I'd mount an intercooler... I've mounted oil coolers int he intake plenum on the firewall, but that space is taken (and heated up) by the turbo assembly.... I think I'd cut a horizontal hole in the passenger rear quarter, lay the intercooler flat, and use an electric fan to force air out. Feeding this with cool air would be more of a problem... Once you start with mods like this it's only a short jump to a mid-engine V8 corvair... or (join fastvairs for the pix) a Northstar Corvair being put together by one of the engineers on the C5 race team... Corvette brakes included... Bill
I could check it for you if you'd like. Besidse the general things to look at in a car, it would also help if I knew some certain things to look for in a Corvair, besides rust of course Thanks for the insite on the sounds Bill, the "Raw" part had me intrigued
Sure thing. I can even fax you a generic checklist if you like. But rust is the main thing. The problem with Ebay is that even the best pics are still "10-fee" away. Just putting eyes on a car can make a big difference. Dale
I have a blown (as in "up" not FI) Corvair engine in my garage that I keep meaning to take apart and look at. It needs to be moved though...anyone know about what it weighs?
You can just email the check list at [email protected] I'll contact the seller when I recieve the list and I will go from their.
Complete engine weighs about 300 lbs. Diff and trans add another 150 or so. In an early Corvair, structural rust is in the rockers and A-pillar at the door hinges. Semi-structural is the trunk floor and passenger floors. Cosmetic rust is around the wheel wheels, rear quarter at the battery, and underneath the overhangs at the lights. (If there is rust or plastic there, you need to look more closely at the rest of the car). To check for sagging, have a 200lb person sit or stand in the car with the top down and see how the doors open and close. I'll see if I can find someone close to look at it from a "Corvair" perspective. In the "asking" price range it should have no major issues with the engine, trans, wheel bearings (early rear wheel bearings are expensive), brakes, etc... AND be structurally sound. Bill
I just checked http://www.corvair.org/cgi-bin/csaad.pl and there are 8 cars for sale by CORSA members... ranging from a project at $1200 all the way to a Seniors car (has scored in excess of 94 points at multiple sanctioned and judged Corvair events...but may or may not be in the "stock" class... a modifed car can also be a Senior car) for $12,500. In between are some decent sounding cars (a couple owned by buddies of mine). Might want to check these out before bidding on Ebay... Bill
I'm calling Ralph Nader. We had one, early series, Monza coupe; i still remember taking our Great Dane to the vets in this car, by folding down the backseat. It was red, and as i remember, ran great in the snow. Man, that's like 1963/64. Hot damn!
We told my daughter "Frank". So when Nader was running for President in 2000 she asked us if this "Ralph" was related to "Frank"! Bill
When I was a kid, my dad had a '66 Monza convertible. I have fond memories of that car and a soft spot for Corvairs. I keep thinking that a 4 speed/140 Corsa convertible would be a lot of fun. Hopefully, one will come my way in the next couple of years.
I can hook you up. Having lived in the SE WI and Chicago area for several years, I'm tight with the guys in your area!!! Awesome local clubs in Madison, Milwaukee, and Chicago. Bill
