Connecticut to screw car enthusiasts | FerrariChat

Connecticut to screw car enthusiasts

Discussion in 'New England' started by Saint Bastage, Mar 6, 2012.

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  1. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
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    #1 Saint Bastage, Mar 6, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
    We have a problem here in Connecticut gentlemen. Our illustrious representatives have put forward House Bill 5405 to modify eligibility to be considered an antique from 20 years to 30 years old and increasing the value from $500 max to $2000. Also note there is no "grandfather" clause meaning if your car is 21 years old now and you qualify as an antique, you won't next year.

    http://www.cga.ct.gov/2012/TOB/H/2012HB-05405-R00-HB.htm

    H.B. 5405 seeks to narrow property tax benefits for antique, rare or special interest motor vehicles by assessing their value at a higher rate.

    H.B. 5405 will require antique, rare or special interest motor vehicles that no longer qualify for special plates to have them replaced with standard plates and taxed using the same calculations used to assess taxes on regular, daily driver vehicles.

    H.B. 5405 makes no provision for “grandfathering” existing antique, rare or special interest motor vehicles 20-30 years old and allowing them to retain their current registration status.

    H.B. 5405 ignores the fact that existing antique, rare or special interest motor vehicles constitute a small portion of the vehicle fleet and are well-maintained, infrequently operated and deserving of continued property tax benefits.

    H.B. 5405 makes it more difficult to register legitimate antique, rare or special interest motor vehicles, which are defined under the bill as thirty years old or older and being preserved because of historic interest and not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications.

    Please call your representatives and complain.

    Also see the SEMA website for additional details regarding how to fight this unfair and dramatic increase in tax.

    http://www.semasan.com/page.asp?content=aa_2012CT1&g=SEMAGA

    I have initiated contact with the SEMA representative Steve M. I hope to be able to enlist your help to support Steve with his efforts on our behalf and will continue to research ways to protest this careless money grab perpetrated by the very people we have elected to represent us.
     
  2. Falcon

    Falcon Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2008
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    I believe the new assessment will be $2,500. I don't mind paying a little more but I don't accept the change of Antique from 20 to 30 years. Will cars under 30 years currently with Antique plates have to turn them in and be issued regular plates? Then, when the car reaches 30 (for some in as little as 12 months)turn in the regular plates and get antiques again? Seems like a lot of work for DMV. As for me I'll turn in my plates and find an alternative. That's not going to help the tax base. Then there is a issue with town's assessors having hundrens of vehicles to assess. The towns don't have suffucient information to assess the vehicles properly. This can only result in many additional man hours and an avalanche of appeals. Looks like a bad deal for everyone.
     
  3. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
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    I don't have an answer for the plate issue specifically however, it is my understanding that you no longer need to use the "Early American" plate when you qualify for Early American status. Any plate can be registered as Early American. Also note that the title "Early American" is a reference to a category correctly titled "Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle"

    I'd also like to point out that the text of the house bill indicates the new text underlined and in blue next to the old text. That is to say Two Thousand five hundred dollars represents the new value of 2000 compared to the old text of 500. This may be where you got the $2500.
     
  4. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
    2,548
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    cars greater than 30 years old will experience a 400% increase in taxable value

    cars between 20 and 30 years old will experience an increase in taxable value from $500 to a value determined by the government (Blue book values limited to 20 years).
    1) 1993 Ferrari 348 will experience an approximate 10,000% increase in taxable value over the next 10 years
    2) A 1993 512 TR will experience an approximate 12,500% increase in taxable value over the next 10 years
    3) I don't have any values for 328's, later 308's etc... but as you can see, the numbers are substantial.

    cars less than 20 years old will not be affected except for the dramatic increase in time to eligibility.
     
  5. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    How are they to determine the value of a 1993 Shelby Cobra mustang? At what point does the depreciation curve invert for cars considered by some to be collectible? I saw some words in the text of the bill suggesting the older car must also be original. Does that mean minor mods like replacement wheels, foot pedals, and other cosmetic items disqualify all cars from achieving antique status at any time?

    Lots more questions to be addressed
     
  6. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
    1,421
    S. Glastonbury, CT.
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    Mike
    Just another democrat money grab here in the "Constitution State". Ill conceived and one sided. They realized that they could still get money not only from car enthusiasts, but anyone who decided to save money by buying and maintaining a car over 20 years old.

    They are also creating a larger environmental problem, people aren't that stupid. I'll buy a 30 year old car for a song and then hop it up to a ridiculous horsepower, no cats, straight pipes and all, just to say "F YOU". I will use it as my daily driver too. Hmmm...Pantera's are starting to look better and better.

    What the hell are they thinking. No one will buy a new car if they keep getting taxed to death.

    Rant over, ;D
     
  7. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

    Jun 1, 2007
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    The biggest problem we will face is the apathy of the general public who really couldn't care less about this issue. I'd venture to guess that most think its a good idea. I spoke with a friend today who is truly a car guy but owns 1965 to 1975 American muscle. He couldn't care less. Maybe we should threaten him with the prospect of his Road Runner becoming valued near $100,000 (that's the last I saw at Mecum). Maybe he'll care if we can prove modifications to his cars disqualify him for antique status.
     
  8. Falcon

    Falcon Formula 3

    Aug 19, 2008
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    To clarify, the deletions are in brackets. The words "five hundred" are not in brackets so they will remain. The new law will read "two thousand five hundred".
     
  9. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    you may be correct.


    note that this bill is under consideration RIGHT NOW. It was submitted to the house for the February 2012 session.
     
  10. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

    Nov 20, 2004
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    Pisses me off....guess my cars will live in New York from now on ;).

    --Mike
     
  11. mj_duell

    mj_duell Formula 3

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  12. DadsFerrari

    DadsFerrari Formula 3

    May 31, 2004
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    How much excise tax does a 1993 Ferrari 348 currently have per year?? And how many antique cars exist in CT?? Is it really so many cars that the revenue will mean millions more for the state?? odd
     
  13. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    #13 Saint Bastage, Mar 6, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
    excise is a sales tax and only applies when transferring ownership. We are talking about property tax.

    Property tax is taken at a Mil Rate (percentage) based on your town of record using the same formula as other personal property (your home). The percentage taken is based on an assessed value performed by your town every (5?) years. Present taxable values for a 348 is usually taken from blue book value during the grand list date in October. x 70%.

    My 348 is valued by blue book at near 45K
    45K x 70% = 31,500 taxable value
    the mill rate in my town is 17.98 per thousand
    28 x 17.98 = 566.71
    This is the amount I pay in property tax every year for that car.

    If today's law applies next year my car becomes eligible for antique status which would cap the taxable value at 500 making my annual tax $9.00. If the Bill being discussed passes my property tax will remain the same for an additional 10 years meaning I will have paid my state $5667.10 in additional tax. Please note that My Mill rate is extremely low for a Connecticut municipality. Last I knew a city like Waterbury or New Haven had a mill rate near 45.00.

    This is just my specific perdiciment. Note that the bill modifies the determination of value from standard practices (blue book) to that which my town will need to determine. Blue book value stops representing at 20 years. No other easily found value mechanism exists. our cars value will be determined by some secretary at our town hall or perhaps by our insurance coverages?
     
  14. Joe_CT

    Joe_CT Formula 3
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  15. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    Joe...What can you tell us about a source for the new values from the Insurance Industry. Can they access that data? Like I said...blue book stops at 20 years.
     
  16. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    I paid taxes on my 308 since 1985 based on NADA until it qualified for antique plates. The mill rate here is like 28. So if the bill passes I'll be paying: Average retail is $28k x .7 x .028 = $548.

    By summer I'll be spending that on 100 gallons of gas.

    If you can afford to play, get out of the game.

    When you bought your Ferrari were you really thinging about the tax break when it was 20 years old?

    Life tough when you can afford to buy an maintain an F car.
     
  17. Joe_CT

    Joe_CT Formula 3
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    We in the insurance industry would have a much easier time as we could do some independent research to come up with an apporximate value.

    The DMV has all the sales (transaction) prices of cars sold in the recent past. My guess is they would use something like that to come up with an estimated value. I am sure there would be a lot of appeals.
     
  18. Falcon

    Falcon Formula 3

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    John - I bought a 20 year old car because of the tax break. The savings in taxes of $3,000 over five years, pays for the majors. I've justified the car with the explaination that the insurance and property tax are reasonable. If that were to change it would cause a problem for me. "If you can't afford it get out", is a great saying if you're not the one getting out. You might feel otherwise if the additional burden threaten your ownership.
     
  19. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    John...so you are OK with the 10,000% increase in your taxes. Yes...that's the math. Can we afford it...yes...should we? Will you care if your local assessor decided to value your 308 at $75,000. What if you change the wheels or some other mod and they decide that disqualifies you for antique status forever?

    As it says in the bill...the value will be determined by the municipality. (No standardization applies)

    As it says in the bill...(2) "Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle" means a motor vehicle thirty years old or older which is being preserved because of historic interest and which is not altered or modified from the original manufacturer's specifications.


    Gentlemen...If we can't agree between each other, there is absolutely no hope of repealing this thing.
     
  20. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Well, the percentages are not the issue. It's an increase from $14 to $550 in my case. Hell, my real estate taxes increase by almost that much last year. As for the paragraph on evaluation, it really isn't any different than it is now:

    "For every vehicle not listed in the schedule the determination of the assessed value of any motor vehicle for purposes of the property tax assessment list in any municipality shall continue to be the responsibility of the assessor in such municipality,..."

    The above is not a change. It has always been the responsibility of the assessor for vehicles not on the list.

    Likewise, the definition of an Antique, rare or special interest motor vehicle is the same as it has been for years. The only change is from 20 to 30 years. And at one time it was 25 years.

    I've been through all this having owned my car since new. My car is 27 years old and I didn't have EA plates so I used to have to go through an assessment appeals to have the value reduced. So all I see is that 20 goes to 30 and $500 goes to $2500.

    In stead of buying a 25 year old Ferrari suppose you bought a new M3 or Audi S5. We aren't talking about million dollar collector cars here. We are talking about fairly inexpensive cars that will be taxed like any other luxury car for a few more years. Do I like it? No, not really. But I'm more concerned with how my town spends the money than how it get it.
     
  21. Saint Bastage

    Saint Bastage F1 Rookie

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    #21 Saint Bastage, Mar 6, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2012
    OK...You don't agree. For the life of me I can't understand why you would argue this is a good bill.

    Can I please point out that your taxes paid will go up by $500, Mine will go up by $5000, the only difference being the year of car. I guess its a good thing neither of us own an 1992 F40 or an 1985 288 GTO. A million dollar car property tax for anything between 1983 and 1993 would be an increase of $19,600 per year in your district.
     
  22. ken qv

    ken qv Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2006
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    Unreal... the way the government is wasting money it is not often to come across someone
    that welcomes a tax hike. Crazy. For me it's not about what i can afford, it's about how many vacations michelle takes. People will simply register their cars in another state. Smart people anyway. Good luck guys.
     
  23. gurslo

    gurslo Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
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    My guess is the people with those cars don't have them registerd anyway. They seem to be driven on dealer plates when you see them.
     
  24. gurslo

    gurslo Formula 3

    Feb 25, 2008
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    We are so brain washed that tax hikes are just something you need to live with, it ridiculous.
    I don't mind paying "A" tax increase, ok 'uncle dan' has to fix the buget, but this f***ing guy has hit the people of this state how many times now....income tax, sales tax, gas tax, on and on, ect..ect.. not to mention increased business taxes as well.....what an a** h*le!
     
  25. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2002
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    As if we don't already pay enough taxes in this state. CT ranks near the bottom in terms of taxes and cost of living and we have a state government that has never exercised any semblance of fiscal responsibility when it comes to spending.

    Malloy just forced the biggest set of tax increases on us in the history of the state and why you are so passive about taking another one without protest is a mystery to me. Do you just bend over and say "Thank you sir! May I have another?"

    Just because we have worked hard and earned enough to own a Ferrari doesn't mean that we roll over and smile when the politicians try to take more money out of our wallets.
     

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