Computer geeks - anyone know about RAID? | FerrariChat

Computer geeks - anyone know about RAID?

Discussion in 'Technology' started by SRT Mike, Jun 8, 2007.

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  1. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
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    So I took my desktop PC and have turned it into a "media center" computer. Well, it started filling up QUICK with stuff, so as I have seen good deals on hard drives I have been buying them. Right now I have...

    2 x 250GB SATA HDD (internal)
    1 x 250GB ATA HDD (internal)
    1 x 160GB ATA HDD (internal)
    1 x 100GB ATA HDD (internal)
    1 x 250GB USB HDD (external)

    I want to get a couple of external RAID enclosures and run a couple of RAID 5 arrays (one with 4 x 250GB SATA and one with 4 x 250GB ATA). Any enclosure I see is $1k-2k without drives! This is nuts! I could buy a whole computer, add a RAID controller and buy the drives for that price. Any reasonable solutions for an external enclosure or method that doesn't cost an arm and a leg?
     
  2. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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  3. Wade

    Wade Three Time F1 World Champ
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    A Raid 5 solution will give you hot-swappable fail-over, not really an increase in storage size. You could probably rig a couple based on what you already have but it's best to have each Raid 5 made up with 3 like drives (unless you're using something like the Addonics that Korr mentioned above).

    For media you might want to look into a 4Gbit Fibre Channel using a Terabyte SAN for the required QoS, storage and through-put.
     
  4. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    hmmm thats not bad - thanks Korr. Only downside is they just use a port multiplier on the enclosure and then you need to hook it up to the other half in the PC which has the RAID on it, so it wouldn't be an array I could just unplug and then put into another computer, but its in the price range I want!
     
  5. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The additional size will come from not having my drives maxed out - right now I am using all my SATA and ATA connections. If I used an external USB self-enclosed RAID array, I would drop to 2 internal drives and 2TB of external storage with plenty of room to add drives to the RAID array as needed. The 250gb's I have now are all the same, I was thinking to get another 250GB ATA (same model as the other 2 I have) and another SATA (also the same model).

    I like Korr's solution just wish it was self-enclosed in one box, not a port multiplier in the enclosure and a RAID card that works in conjunction with the PM inside my PC.
     
  6. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's just a plug-in sata card with an external sata connection, pretty cheap but crappy software raid, probably not too horrible on a PCI-E 1x card, but not great.
     
  7. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

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  8. madmaxatl

    madmaxatl Formula Junior

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    You are making it way too complicated. You should be using at least 500gb drives, not 250gb. They make them all the way up to 800gb. If you want to go the external route you are technically only limited by the amount of power your computer can supply to the USB drives. Only use storage racks if you are going to use store massive amounts of data, 10tb+ at least. Linking older computers together can be done if you are on a budget bot for ease of use stuffing 800gb drives in a computer is IMO the best route to go unless you want to spend a lot more money. Ive been doing this stuff since I was 8 so I can probably answer any questions you have.
     
  9. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

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    #9 writerguy, Jun 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  10. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

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    He already bought all the drives in the original post :)
     
  11. Cicada

    Cicada Formula 3

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    why would you want raid 5 for a media PC? unless you REALLY want to save your porn in the event of hardware failure, you don't need parity.
     
  12. Endaar

    Endaar Karting

    Apr 24, 2007
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    Couple things:

    You mentioned having 2TB of external storage. If you're going to do four disk RAID 5 arrays, you're only going to end up with 750GB per array, as the RAID overhead eats up one disk worth of space.

    There are raid controllers that will let you do JBOD (literally, just a bunch of disks) without sacrificing any space to overhead, but if any single drive fails, your entire array is toast. Definitely not reccomended.

    The big thing to keep in mind is that ultimately, the RAID controller itself is the most important component. You want a dedicated hardware RAID controller, and based on your comments need one that will allow for the expansion of existing arrays. The ability to hot-swap drives (if it matters) is controller dependant as well.

    I turned up a few external RAID arrays with built-in controllers, but none that will give you much expansion room. And even at that, you're still around the $1500 mark without drives.

    I think the least expensive way of doing this would be to forget the idea of an external array entirely. Buy a large enough PC case to house all the drives and a quality 8+ port SATA RAID controller. That should be doable for $600 or so depending on what you end up with.
     
  13. Endaar

    Endaar Karting

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    He absolutely needs some redundancy unless he's got an extremely good method of backing up a couple TB of data on a regular basis.

    What's the alternative if you don't do RAID with some form of parity? Either keep each drive separate which means he's got a ton of different drive volumes making organizing files rather difficult, or pool the drives together as JBOD and be in a situation where any single drive failure takes every bit of data with it. Neither is a good situation.

    If you're going to put the time into building a media server, ripping CDs, ripping DVDs, time-shifting TV, etc., you're not going to want to see all that stuff disappear due to one drive failing. Drives DO fail. Plan for it and it's not a big deal. Fail to plan for it and it can become a huge issue.
     
  14. heckler40

    heckler40 Karting

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    Just FYI, hot swap is controller specific. RAID has nothing to do with hot swapping drives.
     
  15. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    Raid 0 ftw.

    Anything else is just womanly.
     
  16. Razzer92

    Razzer92 F1 Rookie

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    If your download alot of stuff and planeing to have your computer for a long time then get the 500 gb or the (250GB ATA HDD internal)
     
  17. RoWis

    RoWis F1 Rookie

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    If you want lots of storage get the Maxtor 1TB external hard drives or better yet get 2.
     
  18. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I still do my backups to floppy.

    RAID firewire floppy array can't be beat.
     
  19. vraa

    vraa F1 Rookie
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    Raid 0 or not?
     
  20. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Huh?

    Why would I want to spend $400-500/ea on 800GB drives when I can get 500GB drives for $120? Also, with the above rationale, I would dump them and move to 1.5TB drives then I fill the 800GB's (and higher capacities become available)????

    I disagree. 250GB and 500GB drives are at a great price point. The idea is to have multiple terabytes of space, fault tolerance and expandability. If someone needs more space (and redundancy) than they can get with internal 250 or 500GB drives, the solution is definitely not to just upgrade to 800GB drives.
     
  21. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Because drives fail - the more you have, the more chance you will deal with a failure at some point. I have hundreds of gigs of TV shows, movies, music, etc. I also have a lot of shows on a PVR setup and I plan to re-do the HTPC to be able to record HD content, which is gonna eat up a LOT of space. I currently have a lot of movies in standard def, but I would like to re-rip a lot of them in HD. That eats up LOTS of space. It's too much to think about using only internal drives - we're talking TB's of space. I would much prefer to stick everything down in the basement and be able to modularly add space as I need it.

    Given that all drives will eventually fail, and given that if I use RAID5, I will never lose any data so long as I repair the array after each failure, why would I not go with RAID 5? Why not get the fault tolerance of RAID 5 if you have 3 or 4 drives you want to consolidate anyway? Other than the cost of the controller, what's the downside?
     
  22. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Yeah, I saw the same thing - I am shocked that nobody seems to make a standalone product like this. I mean, I can get a barebones PC together for $200. Add in a quality hardware RAID controller for a few hundred more. So why is a standalone solution $2000-4000?

    The only stand alone solutions I see use PM cards with the RAID portion on the PCI card that goes in the computer. If they just went that one step further and made it all self-contained, it would be gold.

    Imagine something like a Buffalo Teraserver (or whatever it's called) with a USB/Firewire/e-SATA port on the back, and maybe 4-5 drivebays on front. Sell it for $299 and make a killing.

    IMO of course.
     
  23. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Double your failure rate, double you fun
    With double mint, double mint, RAID 0....


    Nobody uses RAID 0
     
  24. Endaar

    Endaar Karting

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    Probably because there's no market for it. Most people are pretty content at home with one drive in their PC and increasingly an external USB drive for backup, if they even bother.

    On the corporate side of things, anyone who needs TB of storage is likely doing so with a SAN, and even though iSCSI and SATA drives have brought down the entry price point considerably as compared to FibreChannel and SCSI, we're nowhere near this being an affordable home option.

    The good news I suppose is that Microsoft has in beta a "home" version of Windows Server, which is designed specifically to be a fileserver for media. I suspect that will start to push the market in this direction, as more and more people are centralizing large quantities of storage at home and it increasingly makes sense to have a proper server that can be accessed by all your PCs, XBOX, etc.
     
  25. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    Mike,

    Are you changing your data often? If not, why don't you just buy a couple of drives as backups and backup the movies you want, and store the drives? You said yourself drives are cheap. So, take your movies, etc., that you want to keep and back them up offsite. That way they are protected from more than just a drive failure.

    I think you are more likely to have a drive failure running a RAID configuration.
     

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