Hi Everyone, My F430 spider has been problematic to say the least. One ongoing intermittent fault I have had is the car conking out while pulling away in first. The last time it caused an issue the gearbox light came on while I was in second gear and then conked out while (I think) it made an auto change down into first. The codes I had for the gearbox were P1790 Primary Vac. Sensor Clutch Position and P1710 Clutch Position Sensor. It went into Ferrari and they quoted £3k ($4k) to replace the sensor. It’s a gearbox off job and they have dismantled the tail end significantly so the cost seems reasonable. My clutch is 29% worn so am not keen on replacing it as that works out at an additional £7k ($9k). I would expect a good few miles from the clutch. Ferrari technical ‘strongly recommend’ changing the clutch as the fault may come back without changing it with the sensor. I’m essentially looking at £10k ($13k) for a duff sensor. Does anyone have any experience of this issue and clutch replacement or not? This is not the first issue I’ve had with this ‘reliable’ Ferrari model. Many thanks in advance for any responses. Iain Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
I will be more than happy to brainstorm some.other possible issues .. the clutch position sensor is sometimes a red heron ...if you are willing to spend an hour or two doing some diag work (mostly with diag tool ) and timings I am sure we can somewhat prove that it is a clutch position sensor issue Do you have any diag tool like ap200, thinkdiag , launch Even if you don't ..some timings can reveal some issues as well PM me if you would like to chat Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
I thought Brian Crall said the clutch position sensor could be changed without pulling the transaxle on the 360 and F430? Might be worth a query to him.
I’ve got the think diag tool which is fab. Ferrari have played a lot with the PIS setting and have (free of charge) spent a bit of time driving it around stop-start traffic to replicate the fault whilst making adjustments to the PIS. It’s been everywhere from 4.1 to 5.1 (if memory serves me correctly) and they were happy with the final setting. Then it conked out. The sensor has been changed and the car is still in bits. My dilemma is pay for the clutch or not. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Here it is (green dot), not sure if there is access from the side. This is stills from the video the dealer sent me. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Image Unavailable, Please Login That’s from the side when I was last under it. Not sure if you can do the job through that gap. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Didn't catch that on your original post ..I was trying to avoid a clutch sensor change if not needed The clutch has at 12 to 15 k left on it .. I wouldn't change it unless it is glazed or oil/hydraulic fluid is on it I know of another mechanic that changed the sensor on a 360 with pulling transmission which is the factory method Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
I’m thinking the same and I can’t see any reason why some wear on the clutch would affect the position sensor replacement job success. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
If it could be done, it might be through the bottom where the cover is removed. Your throwout bearing looks like it could have 29,000 miles. I would inspect that pretty carefully and consider replacing. Another $9k to replace a clutch where you are at now is insane!! That must be $8,750 clutch, $250 labor. I bet they are saying new flywheel, clutch disk + pressure plate and new bolts. That might actually be close to $8,750.
I think Brian meant to pull the gearbox back six inches but not remove it from the car. Then work through the gap to change the Clutch Position Sensor. That would be my guess. As for me, since I am that close to yanking it off the car, I would just take it off the car.
Your cost for taking the gearbox off is steep, its about 10 hours work. I had mine taken off to change a leaking release bearing in Nottingham and was £1800 with me supplying the bearing. While transferring over the linkage they were insistent we change item 52 for reliability (50p)- this gives the bearing position to the sensor so any wear will give problems ( tiny roll pin) My clutch has 22% wear and they said to leave it alone as working fine. You would be best to fit a hills engineering release bearing while it is in bits as known issue with the oem part. I have an unused hill engineering hydraulic block if your is the old design, they crack and replaced by modified part.
Hi Mike, The block in the pic is the old one, I changed it out for a Hill one. I’d love to have a hill release bearing but not sure if Ferrari would fit a non-OEM part. I’m having a chat with them later on to see why the bill is so big. I think, as 67 says, there are many more bits to replace than just the clutch itself. A clutch ‘kit’ is (from memory) £2750 + vat. Not sure what’s in the kit if you can spend that again on other bits required when doing the clutch. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
They will fit a hills bearing but if it fails you foot the bill to renew it. If they do the rest of the clutch kit, their 12 month guarantee covers redoing their oem bits. A clutch is about £1800+ vat, assuming you. don’t need a flywheel, plus fitting. With gearbox out you cannot see how much left on clutch and have to go off wear readout. Have a look on superperformance website for part prices
Hello, Got my wires crossed regarding my quotes. I saw the labour cost twice on two different estimates. The total bill is £7k ($9k) which is clutch, sensor and all the odds and sods not including the flywheel (not required) and release bearing which I’ll supply from Hill (thanks Mike). The clutch works out at £2700 ($3400) which is just a touch more than the labour cost so I decided to go ahead with it (small fry on the scheme of things and better to have it all new and backed up by the dealer). The price also includes a piece of wheel arch trim and changing the cylinder cover gaskets (my supply). FYI I was quoted £3500 ($4400) for replacing the gaskets alone last year at a different Ferrari dealer. Hopefully that’s it apart from routine servicing. Cheers Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Be sure you get the correct hills release bearing as different pt no for manual and F1 box, no idea why. Don’t forget to ask about item 52, the pin. No reason you cannot do rocker gaskets yourself, simple job, just need long arms Was there any oil or grease in the bottom of the clutch housing, would have come from release bearing if it was failing
Hi Mike, yeah, I saw the two different parts too. I have definitely got the right one. Regarding the rocker covers, I had bought the kit and would have done it myself however there isn’t enough clearance between the engine and the Alcoa frame to lift them clear. I didn’t want to do a bodge job so had planned to do it properly at some point i.e. frame out. I saw Ferrari had the frame out for this job so dropped off the seals to them to fit. Hopefully they’ll only charge me an hour or two. Regarding long arms, I did plugs and coils and that was a long arm job indeed. I was glad I didn’t have the coupe. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
