Cloning Key Fob w/o pin

I've heard of other people having similar problems, but in their case it was because the dealer had finger trouble and didn't really know how to do the reprogramming.

Others on fchat might be able to talk you through the process. I can also put you in touch with a fellow in Montreal who has helped people in this situation -- I don't know whether or not he'd be prepared to talk you through the process as he guards his secrets carefully and usually charges a few $$ for doing the reprogramming. However, PM me if you'd like his contact info.

I've also had good experiences with Black Horse Performance in FL:

http://www.blackhorseperformance.com/

You could call these guys and ask for Christian. They might know what to do. All I'm saying is that your dealer might not be attempting to reprogram everything correctly.

 

PS - when you purchased your new fobs (and it sounds as if you bought a complete set of one red and two blacks) I assume you were also provided with a new PIN?

 

Not enough information. Were the three fobs a new, matched set with a new PIN or did you buy them off E-bay? Nobody can program random fobs to match one you already have. All you can do is clone the working one as many times as you like or buy a matched set of three with PIN and program your ECU to accept the new set and new PIN if you have the original PIN and it works..

Read the attachment below, and, if you have your PIN, try and start your engine with key strokes and PIN alone. If you can do that, you can program your ECU to accept new fobs. If not, cloning is your cheapest option. The attached document will explain all those details.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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Take the document above and see if you can start the engine with key and PIN alone using the 1st checklist. If you can do that, you can program the ECU yourself to accept the new fobs and PIN using the 2nd checklist. If you only have one fob, odds are the PIN you have is still the original.

Many dealers do not have techs who have done many of the ECU/fob programmings on older cars like your 360 or my 575M, so you may have better luck yourself.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Terry's quite right. Try starting the car with your original PIN and key as per the instructions he's directed you towards. This is the first step in the process. Please report back so that we know how you get on.

 

I hope it starts for you with the original PIN as this will be a giant step in the right direction. I wasn't even provided with my PIN, or a second key, or any spare remotes, so if it does work for you I'll be somewhat jealous!!

 

xcheckme....I had similar experience last year when I purchased a 2001 Spider w/one block FOB, two keys, and the PIN. I ordered a FOB set from the dealer, was only $450 for me as they had the set in stock, ordered by someone whom never picked them up. I followed the instructions but I will say it took me 7,8 or maybe it was 9 times before I got it right. For me it was step 13 that was tripping me up. I'd get to the 10th on/off cycle and not see the LED start flashing. I don't recall what I was doing wrong but, taking a break, re-reading the instructions, having a beer and just being mellow I finally got it right and everything is working fine.

 

Scott- Having a beer helps, as does jumping up and down when it finally works. Frustrating up until then. The most fun has been owners who did it themselves when their dealers could not pull it off. The last car with that antiquated system was built in 2005, a Superamerica.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

It took me a few tries before I got the new FOBs to transfer, too. Hopefully, I'll never have to do it again!

I think the difficulty is that you go from an off-on-off rhythm to an on-off-on rhythm, and it's easy to make a mistake on the transition. Just relax and go over it a few times mentally before doing it for real. It also helps your confidence to know that PIN works first. Try starting to car with the PIN to satisfy yourself you have the right code. Then program the new FOBs. Good luck!

 

correct me if i'm wrong but there are several places you can just send your current alarm key and the new one to and they will simply just "copy or clone" your alarm key to the new one. the cost is around 100 bucks. they pretty much just open the alarm and then plug it into a computer which copies all the information on the chip. they then transfer that information onto the new alarm fob. pretty straight forward.

the keys you can just have cut at a trustworthy key shop. just my 2 cents.

 

Affirmative, cloning fobs is possible. The EEPROM memory from the working fob is programmed into the new fob(s)'s EEPROM. The problem is you need to rotate the fobs regularly or they get out of synch because they contain exactly the same sequence of rolling codes as the original fob. So if you use one and switch, it may take quite a few button depressions to get a code the ECU has not seen recently. Luckily, there is a bypass for that. If you depress the button three times within 10 seconds, the fob will work on the next depression. Logic in the system says there is not way someone could have recorded three simultaneous codes and this must be a real fob.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

Uggghhh...I literally ordered my Fobs today from Ferrari of Houston. I hope that I am not going to have any problems...I do have (what I think) is the original code

 

Check code by trying PIN only (plus key of course) to start car. If it works, you should be able to program new FOBs. Just be sure not to fool yourself; make sure your car has gone into immobilizer mode. Exit car, close door, and wait several minutes after shutting off car. Otherwise, car will start even without PIN if you just drove it.

 

If you shut down the car, remove the key, and exit the car, it is only 60 seconds. If you use the fob to disarm the alarm from the outside and do not start the car, it is 120 seconds. Not too long. Allow a bit for margin, but in no case longer than 3 minutes.

Taz
Terry Phillips

 

2x failed LEDs rated for 50-100K hours. I do not suspect a LED manufacturing defect, I think it is more likely something else. The only things I know that will cause premature failure of an LED are:

1. Over temperature. I doubt you have exceeded the max temp for the LED.
2. Over voltage. Take 10min and test the LED voltage by putting a voltmeter in Volt setting on the two LED leads. Polarity does not matter if the meter is digital. Most LEDs are 3v or 5v. What is the 360 alarm LED? I dont know really. But this is a quick check, so not much time wasted.

One other possibility other than the alarm ECU over-voltaging the LED. Maybe the first LED actually failed, and the second one was not installed very well. Look at the contacts / connection when you go to test the voltage.

 

Not that I'm an expert, but are you sure that your siren is in good shape? If the batteries die (and they do) it causes the LED to be permanently on. I don't know what other weird behaviour might be caused by failed batteries within the siren.

 

In my 2000 360 (euro car) I have 2 keys but only the red fob and no pin. What's my suggested first step? Do I buy a new set from the dealer then try and reprogram the ECU? Not sure since all advice seems to assume you start with the pin....

 

Which part of the above post 4 is not clear about pin-less options ?

There then are dozens of threads here about cloning eg http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=132424

Thereafter the whole new board is the the next option for three thousand bucks or whatever

 

Your cheapest option if you just want a spare fob is to buy a used one and send it to one of the guys on fchat to have your red fob cloned onto the used fob.

If you also want the security of a PIN (which allows you to start the car without a fob) the first step is to get your dealer to purchase your original PIN from FNA (it'll cost you $500). You'll then see if you can start your car with just the key and the PIN. The potential downfall here occurs if a previous owner changed the ECU for a new one, in which case the original PIN for which you've just paid $500 will not work!! Your call. However, assuming the PIN works, you now have the option of buying a new set of fobs for about $500 and you won't have to buy a new ECU. Confusing isn't it!!!!