Chassis # 2639 Mis-Classisched, sold $4.1million, leaves brokers and buyer searching

How did the engine numbers deal with spares, if any, for a given size? I am thinking by the time the 312 P and PB, as well as the 512, the factory would have gone to a race with extra engines. Were they serialized to a chassis number or what?

Jeff

 

Jeff - I do not know for certain. Initially, I believe that they were serialized for a specific car. By the time you get to the 312 Pb, there were enough of them built that I would not be surprised if they went to some races with a blank for a chassis number and just the N number. Certainly when the cars were sold by the factory, the engine had the correct serial number and the N number was recorded in the factory records, along with a list of spares that went with the car.

 

Here's how you sign up for it and there's also a link there to the archives, where you can read the latest posts regarding all the fuss going on.

http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/listinfo/ferrari

 

Here's some photos of 2639 GT's Numero Interno area:
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Hard to say without more of the expertise many of you have, but to my eyes, the internal sure looks re-stamped.

- I see a 5 very clearly under that deeper 6.
- An indiscernible 0, 6 or 3
- A 0, possibly 6.
- The F "sits funny." Could that have been an over-stamped E (as in GTE motor)?

Just a bystander.

 

It's patently obvious the original rough/raw casting area (where the Numero Interno was originally stamped by Ferrari), has been subsequently machined/altered/ground off at some point in time.

 

Having just read the information on ferrarilist the OP started this entire post to throw smoke around a deal that went down without him getting any money.

Makes me wonder if OP would have cared about any of the rest of this story if he had money in his pocket.

He is angry with Mike Sheehan on this deal. OP is claiming he had a significant role in bring a deal together while Mike claims he had no role and that discussions about the car had significantly predated OP.

Jeff

 

what would "530 ?" or "330 ?" translate to if those were the original numbers?

are there really that many involved with hands out concerning cars at this level?
i have seen Mr Sackey make references to things that go on around the sales of Miura's and 288 GTO's.

Doesn't anyone just buy or sell a car person to person anymore? ...

Or, is it the number of zeros involved that warrant due diligence and " experts / brokers" to be consulted?

I dont see this much fuss with $50mm aircraft changing hands. Seems like a simple transaction has been made way too dramatic, and too many hands in the pot to boot.

I am not meaning to lessen the importance of brokers, but this is not the first time i have seen bickering over whos getting paid in the exotic car world.

Are there not written contracts for this stuff?

 

Who said that this car had been certified by FC as having it's original engine? Where does this information come from?

 

In corporate aircraft deals there is a real difference from a broker that is representing either the buyer or seller and a "bird dog". The bird dog is someone that might know something, heard of something and feeds the information to one of the real players in the deal. A good bird dog will usually get some level of compensation.

One difference from the aircraft to the classic Ferrari is provenance and records. The aircraft has a log book and detailed maintenance records. There is not an expectation that the originally installed components of the aircraft will still be there (there will be records of all changes and upgrades performed). The records will also prove complete ownership history. With this it is real hard to invent a history that isn't there. Besides that the jet isn't a collectible just a high value asset & tool.

Jeff

 

In the other place there is a specific story of how Sheehan paid to have a Classiche inspector flown in to do the survey and that the result did eventually get certification. I did not notice mention of the specifics on the level of certification or notations.

Jeff

 

Hello Ferrari Chatters...

Yes indeed, 250 SWB s/n 2639 was owned by Peter Dyson (since 2005) and was available through John Hajduk of Motorkraft in Indianapolis for the last few years. The price was always $3m “net” to John Hajduk, anyone well versed in this business knew of this car and the price.

And yes, I’ve known John Hajduk for decades and done business with John Hajduk for decades.

And yes, there were questions regarding the engine number and s/n stampings.

Because there were questions and because most buyer would want Ferrari Classiche verification on any high-end Enzo-era Ferrari purchase, I hired and paid John Amette of Ferrari Classiche to inspect 250 SWB s/n 2639 GT.

In June I bought the tickets for John Amette and for me, I flew with John Amette to Indianapolis for the inspection, I took my own photos, John Amette took his own photos for Ferrari Classiche and I paid the Classiche inspection fees for the Classiche report.

A month later, in July, when I had a positive report on the engine, the trans and the diff on 250 SWB s/n 2639 GT from Ferrari Classiche we agreed to sell the car to our buyer, subject to a second inspection by his mechanic, Francois Sicard.

I then flew back to Indianapolis for a second inspection, met with the buyer and François Sicard, who both flew into Indy in a private jet, and conclude the sale.

Douglas Le Grand, like the many dozens of other brokers who attempted to flog this car over the last few years, contributed absolutely zero to this sale.

As for Douglas Le Grand, who’s heard of him before his vitriolic posting? How many Ferraris has he sold this week? How about this month? How about this year? How many in the last decade? Two decades? Three decades? Sadly for Douglas Le Grand I opine the answer to these questions is a very big zero.

Reality is that Douglas Le Grand at [email protected] is a gemologist who recently
decided he wanted to be a Ferrari broker.

Sadly Douglas Le Grand all-too-obviously knows next to nothing about vintage Ferraris and even less about the protocol of vintage Ferrari sales.

Douglas Le Grand is just another broker who got photos from one broker and then sent those photos out to anyone and everyone in the vintage Ferrari business in the hope of getting in the middle of some future deal, any deal, to make a fast buck..

If anyone cares I can supply photos I took showing John Amette of Ferrari Classiche as John inspected 250 SWB s/n 2639 GT at John Hajduk’s shop in Indanapolis.

I also have photos from the second trip showing Francois Sicard inspecting 250 SWB s/n 2639 GT.

While in Indianapolis I had lunch with John Hajduk and specifically asked John Hajduk if Douglas Le Grand (and a long list of others wanta-be brokers) had anything whatsoever to do with the acquisition or sale of 250 SWB s/n 2639 GT.

As per John Hajduk, Douglas Le Grand was just another wanta-be broker (of many, many dozens) who called him about the car over the last few years.

Should anyone care to verify any of this, feel free to call John Hajduk at 317 846 5203 and/or John Amette at the “Classiche Department at Ferrari of Newport Beach at 714 662 7600 and/or Francois Sicard at 203 431 4824. They are all well known in the Ferrari community, Douglas Le Grand is a zero and will remain a zero.

As for Douglas Le Grand’s ranting’s that the engine is incorrect or that the car sold for $4m USD, Douglas Le Grand is, at the very best, ill-informed and delusional.

To repeat, Douglas Le Grand and his list of cadres contributed absolutely zero to this sale.

Who would want the contributions of an ill-informed and vitriolic moron?

Douglas Le Grand’s ranting’s are both slanderous and massively incorrect in their allegations. I’ll be filing a slander lawsuit against him in the next week or two.

My regards.

M. Sheehan.

 

Mike,

Glad to see your post with explanation.

Can you shed any light on the questions on the engine stamping? Is there a background story here or what is seen is accurate for this engine and car?

Jeff

 

Awesome

 

Good post.

Thanks.

 

I agree. and thats my point. Being with and around Gulfstreams for the last 14 years, the coming and going of aircraft seems like any other business deal. Hell old GII's are worth way more than many top tier cars. i know its not a straight across comparison per se, but I find it odd that there has to be so many people involved in the sales of specific old cars.

i think that alone would stave me off from dealing or owning the high end stuff. Rare guns and guitars are more fun, and easier to move and store!

Mr S.'s post illuminating the subject explains alot. i wonder why a "gem guy" would think he could wander into a field like this and play? Seems like a bad idea to mess with people with not only funds, but years of hands on knowledge.

I hope it works out.

 

Mike,

Thanks for your post.

"I can supply"

Also, can you post somes of this photos ? Or you will put on your site ?

 

Yes Yes, please post any and all pictures. thanks just one man's opinion tongascrew

 

Hello again Ferrari chatters.

For those who asked 250 SWB s/n 2639 was never on our website and never will be.

Almost all of the high-end sales we do are very, very discreet, which is why I find Douglas Le Grand to be staggeringly unprofessional.

On a second subject, below is an amusing earlier e-mail from Douglas Le Grand offering 250 SWB s/n 2639 to me at $3.6m, so Douglas Le Grand was obviously trying to make a $600,000 markup over the firm price from John Hajduk.

If only it were that easy is this business, any busienss.

On a third subject, I very rarely go to Ferrari chat so I do not know how to post photos.

If anyone wants photos they can e-mail me privately at [email protected] and I’ll send them.

Anyone is welcome to post them wherever they might like as far too many people obviously know the basics re: this transaction.

Last but not least would Jeff Kennedy please contact me directly at [email protected] as I’m curious what he does with Gulfstreams?

F.W.I.W. I’ll be flying on 310EJ with a client to inspect (and hopefully sell) his collection early next month. Nice plane.

Below is one of many e-mails from the lubricious Douglas Le Grand re: his attempts to slither into the high-end exotic car business.

My regards.

Mike Sheehan

<REMOVED - personal email>

 

Mike, obviously you're just pissed because the gemologist can't even spell your name correctly! ;-)

 

Sounds to me like gemologist will soon be holding on to his two gem stones once Mike files against him....

 

F.W.I.W that's serial number 1109, your guy bought it a couple months ago in August 2011.

What's the story on the 'possible re-stamped' engine numbers? No one wants to say anything.

 

Ah yes, s/n and stamping sillyness.

It really doesn't matter what me, or anyone else, opines about chassis stampings or originality about any part, from ashtrays to engine blocks on any Ferrari.

These days the papal blessing comes from Ferrari Classiche and so I ran 250 SWB s/n 2639 GT through Ferrari Classiche and they gave it the papal blessing and sprinkled holy water on it.

That's all that really matters.

As for pictures anyone can e-mail me at [email protected] for photos.

And here's a few more of the many e-mails from Douglas Le Grand in his search for a free education and the path to riches...

My regards.

M. Sheehan.

<REMOVED - no personal info (emails) without permission from all parties)

 

Rob - Not sure I agree with the removal of these communications. OP made serious assertions against Mike here and in other public places. In my opinion that makes it fair game for Mike to use what he can to defend his position. If the e-mail addresses need to be removed then that is OK, again in my opionion.

Jeff

 

$100 says this won't be over for 3-4 years...