Challenge Center Lock Rim conversion

Was there supposed to be a link?

 

I was contemplating this too before purchasing my new HREs and ultimately decided against it for a few reasons that were important to me.

1) The kit isn't any lighter than the titanium lugs

2) I would have to sacrifice a significant amount of "concave-ness" for proper clearance and I think that takes away from the overall looks / aggression of the wheel. The center lock version of the wheel I chose also didn't look as good; they had to beef up the area towards the center

3) if I ever get bored of the wheels and want to sell them it would have a much narrower audience than the conventional setup i.e. pain in the arse

Very few folks mod, let alone are willing to spend $3.5k on a hub kit ontop of $10k HRE wheels

 

I love the rims and look too. Perhaps we should chat live?

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/04/02/16a7f4d71b295b273b6e9607b8b28826.jpg

 

I have this kit on my Scud. I was very concerned with weight as well.

Here's the deal. Let's make comparisons to a stock Scud setup. I believe Scud wheels are about 27-28 lbs each. 5 titanium lug nuts... Maybe .5-1 lb.

I forget what the break down was, but when I weighed the challenge wheels + center lock adapter+ nut, the setup came in at roughly 31-32 lbs. i was actually VERY disappointed to find out it weighed that much more than the stock Scud setup. However, after mounting them on the car, I noticed immediately significant accelaration advantages over the stock setup. I was shocked to say the least. Why was I shocked? Because I had read long ago titanium lug nuts gave you very very marginal accelaration advantages because the lug nuts were placed too close to the center axis of rotation. I didn't want to believe it because reducing rotational mass is still reducing rotational mass right?

The center lock adapter is quite heavy. If I had to guestimate the weight, I would say 10lbs with the nut. But I am convinced now, after having driven my car, because the weight of the adapter is concentrated around the center rotation, you dont really feel the negative affects of the added weight. However, you do feel the benefits of the lighter BBS Challenge wheels, which is about 22lbs.

Keep in mind BBS Challenge wheels are about .5 inch wider than the stock Scud wheels as well, so you get more width out of your tire.

The center lock adapter also acts as a 15mm spacer, which helps with the flush look. If you want wider than stock look, then you are either adding weight by adding a spacer (+ longer bolts) or adding more meat to the hub of the wheel to lower the offset or you're adding more meat to lenghten the spokes if the wheel if you are going with is a deep concave.

The key here is to focus more on reducing the weight further away from the center axis of rotation (get light weight wheels). This will be more effective in reducing rotational mass, thus improving acceleration. The only downside of having the heavier center adapter is slightly reduced steering response.

The best light weight setup would prob be BBS FI wheels + titanium lug nuts. Wheels are only 18lbs, which is amazing.

The great thing about the BBS Challenge wheels is it is still somewhat of a Ferrari OEM look as BBS built these wheels specifically for 430 Challenge cars.

 

Nice write up ken. OP - let me know if you are leaning this direction...

 

HREs are 19x9 upfront and 19x12 rear.

Weight is significantly lighter than stock or bbs challenge + centerlock. My HRE Rs are only 18lbs (concave had zero consequence on weight, thanks to HRE engineering), which is comparable to bbs fi but w the bonus of better offset (flush look w no spacers), no rubbing like the fi and wider widths all around.

Utilizes stock length titanium lugs, but I'm getting black ones for a cleaner look. The centerlock bbs still looks inset like stock I.e. Far from being flush, so spacers will still be required if you're going for flush

My tires are 245s upfront and 325s in rear for maximum grip...that view from the rear of those wide tires is quite jaw dropping.

 

HRE's in those sizes weighing in at only 18lbs is VERY impressive. What offsets are they and what camber are you running front and rear? It's great to have to know these options exist if people are looking for the lightest setup. The BBS challenge wheel setup is certainly not the lightest setup/ but a vast improvement over heavy OEM wheels while still keeping it somewhat "Ferrari."

Re: the flushness of the BBS challenge wheels + center lock kit, that was also sort of a mystery for me before purchase. I was concerned because you really can't spacers to the kit. Perhaps you can get away with a 5mm if you really wanted to.

However, after having installed the wheels, i honestly feel the rear wheel is as far out as I would risk it to be without rolling the rear fenders or worry about rubbing during cornering. This is just my personal tolerance/risk. The rear is an 19x10.5 (+40.5) with a 305 wide tire w/ about a 1.7 degree camber. Lowering the car more or adding more camber will probably give more room to work with. I personally just wanted a certain amount of rake between front and rear and didn't want to go too aggressive on the camber. At this point, i don't think I'd even risk with a 5mm spacer.

The front is a different story. Capristo will give you a BBS 19x8 (i forget the offset), which is what I currently have. If someone interested in these wheels wants a more flush look and willing to take a chance, BBS also has a 19x9 +33 (RE984). You can order this through GT motoring, if Capristo won't sell it to you. Just keep in mind the center lock adapter is effectively a 15mm spacer, so your setup will be more like 19x9 + 18. But HERE's the tricky part about the front wheels. Both the 19x9 and 19x8 are Convexed (opposite of Concave). Rarely any after-market wheel company will give you a convex option as it is deemed to be an undesireable look. The tricky part is, if you try to pull the wheels out in the front too much, the spokes will extend past the front bumper because it is convex. I familiarized myself with this whole convex thing on my 355 w/ challenge wheels. However, keep in mind that 355's, 360's, and 430's have this design feature where the front bumper sticks out pass the front fenders about 3/4 of an inch. So although the wheel itself might not be absolutely "flush" with the fenders, the convex spokes are sort of flush with the extension of the front bumper. At this point, i think a picture would be best to describe. Currently i run a 245 with about 1.7 degree camber. There's probably some room for more flushness, but for me... 5mm at the most I would risk going with my current setup. I'm actually happy with it as is and sort of appreciate the "undesireable" look of the convex wheels simply because they meet up with the bumper and this wheel design is prob one of only a few that can pull off a convex look.

Once again, I want to reiterate this is my personal tolerance considering the type of car this and me not wanting to risk dealing with any rubbing or rolling or more aggressive camber. I think if we all shared our setup specs, we can be more confident about what we can get away with and what we can't. I am certainly no stranger to aggressive fitments, concave wheels as I do try to reasonably get the most out of my cars. I have concave Advan RS/RZ's on my Rx7 and Type F concave wheels on my Exige. Both cars are pretty much to the edge without rubbing during hard cornering. I also have a VIP Style LS430 fully dumped on airbags probably more flush than more here on Ferrarichat would like.
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Here are some clearer pics the detailing shop took if anyone is seriously interested in these wheels.
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Rear...
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Here's a bonus photo. After applying the front Clear bra (Suntek) they used my car for a photoshoot to promote their business.
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Ya that was the issue w the BBS Fi, even though it's only an 8.5 front they went too aggressive w the offset and that thing rubbed like crazy. I'm sure if I took it out to the track it would've pulled out the front fender!

245s on an 8 wide front? Dayum...

As for the rear, the offset on the bbs challenge is just right, the only distinction is the width, from 10.5 on the challenge to a 12 for HRE or similar...so that gives you the benefit of putting wider tires. With the challenge setup you're basically running oem tires right?

I had to run oem tire specs on the bbs fi, and it still rubbed, that was a major disappointment especially for 9+k wheels.

BTW, when I was researching this I found the pics in this thread helpful...

hmmm can't seem to paste the forum link here but if you google "430 scuderia challenge center lock" you will see the thread from the other forum. It has some great pics and shows how far in the wheels sit from the fenders.

 

I was actually looking through that entire thread last night trying to find the specific offsets for the 19x8 BBS Center lock Challenge wheels. No luck. I guess I'll just have to make note to check what the offset is when I pull them off the car someday.

The reason the wheels look sunken in in that older thread is because they actually did a legit conversion like a real challenge car. If you play close attention to the OEM challenge car adapter that was used, it's probably only 5mm thick. The Taurino Racing adapter is 15mm thick and I believe that was done on purpose. Don't get me wrong, there's still some room to play with.


I mentioned earlier there is a BBS Challenge Center lock wheel that is 19x9 +33. Combine that with the Taurino Centerlock kit, it will effectively sit as a 19x9 +18. Did some research last night and found BBS FI wheels are 19x8.75 +18, which is virtually identical except the challenge wheels + centerlock kit will sit about 3mm further out. I read a comment where one person mentioned rubbing with a 245 on full lock. Camber setting unknown. I would imagine a 2.5 degree camber in the front could resolve any rubbing issues with a 245 on 19x9 +18. So it's probably is doable if anyone wants to try.

I think if Taurino scaled down the adapter kit from a 15mm to a 10mm in the front, you should easily be able to run a 19x9 wheel with a 245 and get a full contact patch. That would be nice (take notes Taurino . The only thing of concern would be to see if the convexed spokes stick out too much.

Oh and stock tires sizes are 235/295. Im running 245/305. I believe 245 is the max "recommended" on an 8 inch wheel. A 9 inch wheel should spread out the contact patch better. If i can find a cheap 19x9 bbs somewhere, id be willing to try it.

 

Models are such a distraction . I have my eyes rolled anytime someone mentions doing a car photoshoot with a model. Two separate works of art which should be appreciated individually .

 

My camber was 2.4, rubbed like a mofo. full-lock not required to! lol.

It was better (would only rub profusely on soft suspension setting) with oem spec pirellis. I think it was because those had rounder sidewalls than michelins.

 

A 235 on a 9 inch wheel will probably be stretched from most tire companies. Good to know a 245 won't consistently be practical. Then I guess the only viable solution is taurino re-engineering the front adapters from a 15 to a 10mm spacer if someone really wanted a BBS 19x9 centerlock wheel.

 

Any others who have purchased this kit care to chime in? Surely, there must be others. Would love to see more pics .
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http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/ferrari-parts-collectibles/498022-centerlock-conversion-capristo-taurino-2-sets-oem-challenge-wheels.html

 

ooouch! looks like that guy has a slightly pulled out fender!