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Casey Putsch to appear at the KIC, Road America July 18-20

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by ProCoach, Jul 7, 2008.

  1. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
    Full Name:
    Pete
    Sorry don't agree ... you shouldn't be racing in historics with your attitude.

    Old car racing IS about the old car, not the people ... the car should get a safe exercise, not be destroyed. There are plenty of REAL racing venues to have that full on racing attitude.

    Thus in conclusion, yes Historic racing is NOT real racing because the drivers should put the car first before the win at all cost attitude. So yes Casey should stop playing in the wrong field if he really wants to become professional.
    Pete
     
  2. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Sep 15, 2004
    5,439
    VIR Raceway
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    Peter
    You're better than you give yourself credit for... VSCCA, with no timing and scoring, classes or podium ceremonies is some of the most intense racing I've ever done. When I was on pole at the Lime Rock Labor Day event a couple times in the early Nineties, Frank Righetti in a Lotus 7 took me to school! This was in front of 25,000 people, for goodness sake! When he baulked me in West Bend after I decided to do it flat to take him going into the Downhill on the last lap, I nearly $h1t my pants! He won... Discretion is not only sometimes the better part of valor, it's a way to keep breathing... :D
     
  3. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Peter
    Thankfully Pete, you're not the one that makes that decision! :D

    You know what's worse? I've taught over 4500 vintage racers over the last fifteen years in VSCCA, VDCA, HSR and SVRA!

    Vintage racing has A) changed from what it was 20 or 25 years ago. I know, I've been in it that long and b) the emphasis has gotten much more on the RACING than the VINTAGE, like it or not.

    Sort of like the titanium-block Lightweight Jaguar E-Type replica that won the AvD OldTimer GP two weekends ago, or some of the alloy-block BDG powered Chevron's that have won at Monterey. Fly in the face of the "regulations," let alone the spirit. Makes it that much sweeter when you beat the cheating bastards! :)

    Like it or not, people like to win. WHen the green flag drops, the bull**** stops. Just like that MotoGP pass (or Zanardi's pass on Herta. Same kind of deal, wouldn't you say, Art? ;))
     
  4. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,564
    #154 CornersWell, Aug 21, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2008
    Boy am I reluctant to stick my toe in this pond, but...

    I am in agreement, generally, with both WCH and Lolaman on this. Vintage/Historic racing has gotten to be more intense. The quest for ever more speed has made some cars fearfully fast. And, they do get wadded up on occasion. On any given weekend, you could be pushing hard against someone who's name you'd recognize. Not saying you're making them sweat, but you're certainly extending your own boundaries. One of the biggest issues is the quality of the drivers. On a professional grid, everyone has at least earned some wins at some level, got noticed and got a ride (even if they have to bring sponsors). No such requirement on the Vintage/Historic scene. You have to bring a checkbook, and they do try to monitor the driving, but while the top 5 guys might be seriously fast, it's also possible that the last 5 guys drive live Stevie Wonder.

    From my perspective, running in the Historics was just the "next" race car and series, as I had done some lower level, organized racing and wanted to go faster. Eventually, I reached the point that it was either I step-up, write even bigger checks, drive far more, and get serious about a car in GrandAm or ALMS or realize I wouldn't do anything more in the sport other than have a fun time with it. It was never in the cards that F1 would come knocking on my door, and I figured the best I could ever do was to buy a ride in a very well independently prepped car at Le Mans. However, I never had any illusions that someone would actually pay me to race their cars, either. That doesn't mean people in these cars have no talent or have "lost it". For many, racing just came later in life.

    The next step up the rung for "old, fat guys" isn't necessarily the conventional one, though. It may not be where the stars of tomorrow will come from, but after walking around the paddock and seeing a good race at a historic event, you can't help but be impressed by how serious people take it.

    CW
     
  5. ProCoach

    ProCoach F1 Veteran
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    Peter
    Great post! Accurate, too.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Just ruining historic cars :(.

    Plus, as I said, there are many current racing series crying out for serious drivers ... just go race in those. I stopped my humble level of classic racing because I saw the light and instead went clubmans racing. Just as much fun racing, but no historically important car getting fncked.
    Pete
     
  7. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,564
    Oh, and WCH? You've got swagger!

    Cheers!

    CW
     
  8. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,564
    Well, I suspect the original motors are "resting" in a race shop, warehouse or trailer somewhere. I think the owners of these cars know how valuable they are as-raced and make efforts to preserve them as best as possible. I don't think they're permanently altered.

    CW
     
  9. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    this is totally correct. and psk, vintage racing is also increasingly about reuniting famous cars with famous drivers. co to a vintage race and watch jim mullen or roger mandeville drive the historic gtp's around...not for the faint of heart!!!
     
  10. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Well I respectively disagree with this stupid direction.

    Once all the cars are fncked, there is no vintage racing. Plus any win nowadays means absolutely nothing ... go and race a real race car! Yes reunite the drivers but the drivers are now old and ALSO have nothing to prove. They did it back when it counted.

    I'll leave it there and just agree to disagree ... but you'll never see any of my cars on a track with you guys! I can accept accidental looses causing damage to my car, but not some w@nker playing Michael Schumacher making an impossible passing attempt and using the side of my car as his brakes (don't care how famous he once was, etc.). Actually in any race series that is not racing IMO.
    Pete
     
  11. chaparralman

    chaparralman Karting

    Jan 30, 2008
    83
    #161 chaparralman, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
    Some points for this powder keg

    First: Vintage racing drivers. They vary in skill sets from Pros and Ex-Pros to "I can't believe they let that guy on the track".

    Second: While someone might "cry" that a guy wads up a '61 Ferrari 250 GTO. Do you really think a car valued at 11-15m dollars can't be rebuilt? And rebuilt for a smaller fraction of the total value than an SCCA production car. All the owner may care about is the number plate. Then again, maybe the car is very historically significant and they baby it.

    Third: Everyone who is running decent lap times in a vintage car IS willing to take the risk of completely destroying it. These people are not dumb. Accidents happen. The difference is that vintage racers, even at 10/10ths, have learned to have the discipline to race cleanly and set their ego aside just enough. True sportsmen in my opinion. (the world could use more of those)

    Fourth: Whether you believe that vintage racing is just a parade or it is a REAL battle to the limit. You are correct on both accounts.......
    I personally have no interest in fast parade laps, but I do enjoy more pure vintage cars. That is why when I chose the race I attend, I chose the race with a sanctioning body that gives me REAL racing, one that has sportmanlike drivers, and one that brings better vintage cars. Two extremes would be the back of the VSCCA pre-war grid (parade) and the Goodwood circuit (big battles, bent metal, amazing moves, the works!)

    Lastly: In regard to me, there are people reading this that actually know the truth. Some of them only know part of it and a very few know the whole truth. Others simply think they know. In the mean time, I'll see you at the track or the occasional Concours. For those that read the extreme critics, keep in mind that such malice usually has hidden personal motivation.

    Casey Putsch
     
  12. Senna3xWC

    Senna3xWC F1 Rookie

    Nov 30, 2006
    3,151
    NYC

    1. No

    2. Yes

    3. No

    4. No

    Judging by your Ferrari 308 video, your driving skills suck even worse than your poems, Mr. "F1 Driver". There are a lot of guys here who are far more accomplished race drivers yet do a lot less self-promotion than you. Stick to your embarrassing GQ-type photo shoots.
     
  13. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
    1,720
    Toledo, Ohio
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    Tony K.
    #163 Tony K, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008

    http://www.apa.org/topics/controlanger.html

    http://www.wikihow.com/Have-Good-Manners


    :D
     
  14. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,564
    #164 CornersWell, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
    Casey,

    I can't help but be reminded of the old saying, "Those that can, do. Those that can't, talk about it." I don't see Kimi, Massa, Hamilton, Heikki or Alonso on this forum. They likely neither have the time nor the inclination to do so. If your F1 grooming is legitimate, go do it and prove everyone wrong. Stop talking already about it. OTOH, if it's not legitimate, then it's seriously silly for you to even bring it up. "Some know the truth"? Really? Either you are the goods or you aren't. However, if you are, you're in the wrong venues to get noticed by those who matter. They're just not looking there. They never have. Ron Dennis certainly isn't watching HSR/VSRA races looking for Heikki's replacement. And, to suggest that someone is is just absurd. That's not to say that you don't have a patron beneficiary who might open some doors, pay some sponsorship and possibly help you along. But, other than pure altruism, what do they get out of the deal? Unless you're going to race in a televised, big-time series, they'll never get any value for their support and sponsorship dollars. Is altruism possible? Sure, but talk is cheap, and there are LOTS of wanna-bes and never-will-bes. The odds that you'll make it are one in hundreds of thousands. Probably millions. Maybe billions. So impossibly long that they are, in effect, nil. Is there that one in a billion chance? Sure. But I seriously doubt that you're the guy the F1 paddock is buzzing about being the next F1 rookie. If you were winning GP2, I think there'd be a higher probability that you're that guy. But, you're not.

    Like WCH, I do however give you credit for being out on track. You're having fun and maybe improving. That's great. Keep it up. That said, don't blow smoke up our tailpipes about it. The fact that we're even having this conversation is surreal.

    CW
     
  15. chaparralman

    chaparralman Karting

    Jan 30, 2008
    83
    #165 chaparralman, Aug 22, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2008
    Well said corners well.

    However, my last post was about vintage racing and had NOTHING to do with modern racing. This thread is about vintage racing. :)

    Casey
     
  16. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,564
    Fair enough.

    CW
     
  17. 2000YELLOW360

    2000YELLOW360 F1 World Champ
    Owner Consultant

    Jun 5, 2001
    19,732
    Full Name:
    Art
    My point about this entire thread is that people who think they are racing these cars would be better served with a Playstation. I'm well past my career in motosports, but still represent some competitive people. I've seen how the vintage races are run (not sure races is the proper term) and realize that it's essentially a showcase for people who are well past their prime, or never had a prime. That's fine by me, except we really shouldn't label these things as races, because they aren't.

    Art
     
  18. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

  19. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    Yet, we can't have a past without a present.

    There is history being made today in all forms of motorsport. Even my race car has an interesting history, but "vitnage" it ain't.
     
  20. chaparralman

    chaparralman Karting

    Jan 30, 2008
    83
  21. ferraripete

    ferraripete F1 World Champ

    it will be vintage by the start of next season! <grin>
     
  22. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

    Nov 24, 2004
    4,564
    Well, in vintage and historic, you're not racing FOR anything other than fun. That's not to say it's not competitive. But, for the most part, no one's watching but the driver's, girlfriends/wives and crew. The cars ARE the stars, no doubt.

    CW
     
  23. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    Perhaps, but we do know it will enter the rest of the season with a new bumper cover and a few other miscellaneous parts.
     
  24. chaparralman

    chaparralman Karting

    Jan 30, 2008
    83
    B-Mak-

    You mentioned that your modern race car has an interesting history. What do you race?
     
  25. b-mak

    b-mak F1 Veteran

    Diesel Mercedes, apparently.
     

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