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Carlos Salaff Project Caden

Discussion in 'Special Projects & Concept Cars' started by Carlos Salaff, Apr 27, 2015.

  1. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2015
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    Carlos Salaff
    Thanks for the kind words Will!
     
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  3. Ryan S.

    Ryan S. Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Any updates?
     
  4. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2015
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    Hi Ryan,
    I know it has been radio static for a while.

    I have faced some difficult circumstances the last few months which have kept me from making build progress. That said I'm getting back on my feet and will post about next steps in the journey soon.

    Thanks for checking in!
     
  5. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2015
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    It has been a while since I've posted here and a lot has happened. In my latest blog post, I share the heartbreak, the struggle and my newfound hope in making my dream, the Caden Supercar, a reality.

    Link:
    PIVOT POINT
     
  6. 95spiderman

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    Wishing you best of luck!
     
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  8. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

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    #381 4CamGT, Mar 11, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Carlos,

    I read your link. I'm glad you're back at it!!! Your sketches have great emotion and show extreme proportions. Not to derail you, but looking the Gallardo, it's a complex basis and has a wide cabin due to the center tunnel for the AWD. Have you looked at the Ultima or the RCR Superlite for their chassis? They're less complex and offer better proportions to the cabin/shoulder/body than the Gallardo in my opinion and would adapt well to your sketches. My 2 cents. Also the Ultima and Superlite would be easier to do a small production run vs looking for Gallardo donor cars.

    Stay Strong!!!
    Freeman
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  9. avishar

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    Hi Carlos,

    I just came across this thread today, and finished reading the entire thing in one go! It is a bit sad that the things have come to this, because I was really captivated by the project and I was hoping, while reading the thread, that by the end of it, you will have a rolling chassis ready. Project Camden sounds/ed like a dream! Please do not let go of Project Camden. I really think, if it ever comes to fruition, there is some good business potential.

    That being said, I am a bit bemused by your decision to use a Gallardo as a donor car. Is the conversion from 4wd to 2wd really that easy?

    Eitherways, please do keep updating this thread, and wish you the very best in this new direction that you are taking!
     
  10. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2015
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    #383 Carlos Salaff, Mar 12, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
    Thanks Freeman!!
    I did indeed consider the Ultima and Superlite chassis as a base. My plan is to build one prototype and if people like it as much as I do, they can bring me their customer-owned/registered/insured/EPA certified car to modify. This would curtail many hurdles that one faces with kit cars. Not to mention parts availability, service, safety, performance potential and good base-level of refinement. And that glorious Audi/Lambo V10... The only 50-state emissions legal kit car engine is the Chevy LS package--and I'm not such a fan. My idea to use a BMW V10 may have made it difficult for customers to road-register their cars. I felt that if I couldn't continue with building my own chassis, I would be wise to take this opportunity to resolve these issues when making a choice for the new donor.

    The Gallardo does have a wide cabin esp. at the base of the a-pillars, but in my opinion it has a great cabin side view profile and I can use some of the upper. I will have to depart from some of the cross-car construction of my original design to accommodate the wider Gallardo upper, but that opens up other design opportunities. Importantly, I can also capitalize on the fact that the glass, roof, door/window seals etc. are all in place and resolved on the donor. The car will get a tiny bit wider and get a tapered rear cabin portion to get section back into the shoulders.

    In a nutshell, I can't force the original Caden design on this chassis--it will need some new exploration and surfaces but I think there's potential for some exciting solutions! Will be cool to see what you think. Thanks for the encouragement and ideas!
     
  11. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2015
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    Thanks!
    As I wrote I was heartbroken to not be able to finish the original path, but now I see an alternate path that I find exciting as well. Perhaps I'll have the opportunity to revisit the original in time.

    As far as the 2WD conversion, I do believe it is quite simple. Check this out: reidperformance
     
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  13. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

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    Thank you!!
     
  14. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    #386 PAUL500, Mar 12, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
    My advice would be to select a donor car that once damaged is not typically commercially viable to repair once the outer body is damaged, and one that is still readily available. I think you will struggle to find a regular supply of damaged Gallardos and owners of undamaged ones would I very much doubt spend vast sums of money paying you to change them.

    Singers approach was to select a donor car that was readily available in the market at an affordable price, either if damaged or high mileage and tired. The end result still looks like a 911, which your Gallardo proposal would not. Singer sell remodelled cars which are still clearly a 911 and as such have a well established fan base for their product.

    As harsh as this may sound you will continue to be flogging a dead horse if you take this latest approach.

    Find a solid engineered donor chassis that can be easily converted to take an uprated powertrain either from the same manufacturer or a known and well used alternative. Look at what Pagani do with the Mercedes engine or others did in the past using Ford stock block v8s.

    With regards my own project that is also listed in this subsection, initially I was going to use a 308/328 but they are old school technology and required chassis lengthening.

    The 348/355 became the obvious donor, the wheelbase was correct from the off, there is a ready supply of damaged cars at affordable prices, and this will continue for many years yet.

    If I ever decided to do more than my own example, the backbone of the concept is all then in place and good to go if the market was there for such.

    I would say look to Japanese manufacturers for a suitable donor car, plenty of options, solid engineering and plenty of scope for uprated mechanicals.

    Or maybe an entry level Singer esqe car based on the boxter range, or possibly BMW z3/z4

    Your idea is simply too niche using the Gallardo. You will be ploughing yet more money into another commercialy unviable concept.

    Approach the idea with your head not your heart and you stand a much better chance of success this time around :)

    Look at the money Jim G must have ploughed into his SCG project so far, has he even found a buyer for just one example yet who has made themselves public? even with his ability to bank roll it just for fun, and with his established back catalogue of cars such as the P4/5
     
  15. PSk

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    4camGT has the right idea with the Ultima or RCR Superlite chassis. I agree with Paul500, the Gallardo idea is an emotional one not based on logical engineering.

    Personally, unless you go the Ultima or Superlite direction, I think you should go back to real work for a few years and cool your heals. Spend the small free time you will have (as you have a family) getting the basis right now that you are looking at the road legality which really should have been part of the requirements from day one. Not trying to be a smarty pants with that comment but just pointing out how easy it is to miss important requirements and goals when you are knee deep in the emotion of engineering :)

    Best
    Pete
     
  16. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    However If your plan is only to produce one car, and as you now already own the Gallardo, it would not be that difficult to build it with a central driving position.

    You could have some jockey seats either side for occasional passengers, as space would be cramped.

    The passenger compartment in my car is empty now apart from the roll cage, I did even consider a central driving seat and placed one in such a place for mock up.

    It did feel quite nice, visibility was good, and it would allow access to both lhd and rhd markets with just one model spec. You can use a single seater steering rack.

    I decided against it in the end as I already own a F3000 race car which I quite fancy making road legal one day so that would tick the box for me instead.

    I would also stay with 4x4 as the car was engineered around that basis, and I believe the prop to the front diff is offset so would not affect a central driving seat with a tunnel being in the way, concentrate on style and design instead and keep the oily bits as they are, a lot of money went into developing them.
     
  17. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    How about an Atom or similar exoskeleton car and give it your body over the top. Quite a few kits available now in that style.

    F3000 cars are also still cheap enough, but that would involve significant re engineering to become a road car. A bit like the Can Am racers that were built around single seaters in the 70s

    The other alternative donor could be the Prosport 3000 series cars from the 80s/90s, a cheaper version of the Ultima, quite a few out there and they don't command big money. They used a v6 Ford production engine which could be easily swapped out for something bigger.
     
  18. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

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    #390 4CamGT, Mar 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Carlos,

    Here's a couple other options. The Lotus Elise chassis is really a great foundation with the ability to change the front and rear sub frames and modify the track and wheelbase as well as motors. Hennessey does this with their Venom.

    For a front mid-mount, it's hard to beat the Corvette chassis. You could do a modern ISO Grifo.

    Both of these would allow you to use the original VIN's. Also these chassis's are non obtrusive and allow for lots of design freedom. Fisker in the beginning was rebodying BMW's and Mercedes only to find out it was a lot of work without much reward. Singer has done a great job because they're really not doing any major changes to the structure or making a different animal. He's also capitalizing on an existing car culture/equity hungry for more.

    Briggs Cunningham once said, "The only way to make a small fortune out of building your own car is to start with a large fortune".

    Someone also said, " A smart man learns from their own mistakes, a brilliant man learns from other people's mistakes!"

    Freeman
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  19. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    Elise is a very good call, could central seat that chassis as well, and plentiful to find.

    Clams are expensive so it would make a great rebody option.
     
  20. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Elise would allow for an electric variant, also, as Tesla provided. Maybe drop in a Ludicrous-plus drivetrain ...?
     
  21. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2013
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    Even better idea above :)

    Take an Elise rolling chassis, lengthen the subframes to match the wheel base of your existing chassis, single seat it, apply the body you have already built, put in an existing electric motor powertrain and oh boy what a package.

    Sure fire winner right there......with mass market appeal and the proven, certified engineering from existing donors readily available for future customers.
     
  22. 95spiderman

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  23. PAUL500

    PAUL500 Formula 3

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    ooops meant central seat, not single seat, as you may be able to get some small jockey seats either side for short journey passengers or the option may be to scoop out some compartments in the rear firewall of the Elise either side of the central seat to move the passenger seats further back for more legroom
     
  24. Carlos Salaff

    Carlos Salaff Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2015
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    #396 Carlos Salaff, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Wow, thanks for all of the constructive ideas, guys!!

    Here's where I am and where I'm headed:

    My original thought was to adapt the Caden design to the Gallardo chassis. However after I began sketching over that package, I began discovering new design themes that I'm very excited about which also better utilize the footprint and proportions of that chassis and greenhouse. That said, I will make the Gallardo-based model a second car which I'll dub the C2. I'm going to front-burner this one as I currently have the resources to finish and it's a more well-trodden process than Caden and won't require mechanical modification. I'll tackle this one's body with rapid prototyping tools.

    As far as the original Caden which I'll now dub the C1, I will continue my search for either a chassis partner and/or the right chassis to modify. I want to keep the C1 as faithful as possible to the existing model, sketches and concept, but need to build up the resources and/or forge a chassis partnership. Let me know if any of you might want to partner in such a way.

    I thought about the Lotus Elise, but it would need extensive modification--front/rear suspension, wheelbase, subframe, engine. Surely not impossible, though. Another option I have thought about is to take an Alpha 4C(nice carbon tub) and create a new subframe with rear inboard suspension. Of course that would necessitate an engine swap and beefed-up brakes.

    Actually, the Radical RX-C fits quite closely with the original Caden package and I have reached out to them to see if they'd be interested.
    Some of the chassis manufacturers that were mentioned on this thread were not open to this type of collaboration when I reached out.
    Lastly I wonder if the 2018 Vette chassis might work, but that's TBD at this point.


    I'm now envisioning a Caden lineup of vehicles, all of which can be offered on a one-off basis. It can all exist virtually until a client orders their bespoke, tailored car. I'm confident that the fabrication talent and rapid manufacturing tools are in place to create a bespoke program like this.

    I'm also envisioning a 3rd vehicle offering, dubbed the C3, which could be Viper-based. Here's a sketch for it.

    I wrote more about all of this in today's blog:
    C1-C3 // THE CADEN LINEUP
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  25. 95spiderman

    95spiderman F1 World Champ
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    I hope something comes of the viper idea. Chrysler finally gets the car right and of course, they stop production. Maybe you can give it new life. Would be awesome
     
  26. 4CamGT

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    #398 4CamGT, Mar 23, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  27. 95spiderman

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  28. jm2

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    Very nice!
     

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