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F8 Carbonio front license holder on F8 - experiences?

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by premierminister, Sep 14, 2020.

  1. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,685
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    #26 Shadowfax, Mar 8, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2021
    Thanks for responding.

    Re the revised bracket being shipped to my business address:-

    I have received other parcels over the course of last year during covid all which made their way to my office, received by the warehouse staffs. I would say that if the item was indeed shipped to my business address then it must have become lost in transit. As an FYI, have since checked (today) with my Warehouse manager who has checked the goods inwards register which records all goods entering the premises. We have a fail safe system in place to accommodate the vast amount of products we move nationally/globally. So basically if it isn't showing as being received in the register then it was never received. As the owner of the business i can also assure you that my staff ensure any packages addressed to me in my name or C/0 the business name find their way to my office. Also noteworthy to mention is that my business was classified by the govt here as essential service to the automotive industry/and logistics, so even during full lockdown our doors were always open for biz so no way did a truck arrive with goods AF or otherwise, and not be able to deliver.

    PS.
    No offense intended but the photos showing Pistas on circuit in wet and dry weather are meaningless.

    Insofar as how fast the car can actually be driven without the bracket flying off would be determined by various factors, particularly in the event there was no means built into the design where there is adequate pressure pulling back against those angled contact points.

    As mentioned earlier in my PM's, the inherent problem I saw with the original design was that the clamping pressure from the under plate was applying clamping pressure against a slippery dip shaped surface and not a level surface. This was never going end well.

    In this situation the natural progression of any clamping force would be contact failure as it inevitably squeezed against the two upper contact points - the two contact points steadily progressing forward resulting in complete loss of clamping force as they made their way down the slippery dip. The hydrophobic surface of the PPF film would further the difficulty for the two contact points to stay from sliding down that slippery dip as there was no means in the design to counter the natural forces in play which were always working in conflict against the lower clamping force.

    Fwiw the ppf element was overcome by providing a sticky contact surface for the two upper contact points in a bid to slow the inevitable loss of clamping force as the two contact points were squeezed down the slope by the opposing under clamp. Clamping force failure was simply an inevitable bi product of that design, an inherent flaw if you will. Im surprised the designer wasn't able to see that actually but I note that your F8 bracket has introduced a spring loaded arrangement to create a counter "pull back" pressure against the two angled contact points (which sit upon the same style of angled CF slippery dip. This new system presents a logical solution in countering the forces working against the angled contact points sliding down the slippery dip.
     
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  3. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    First time i looked at the Pista holder , certainly different to the 488 GTB with regards to execution. The springs of the 488 GTB holder certainly hold it in place.

    The Pista one just looks cumbersome. The 488 GTB procedure is hook , pull and release . The Pista manual is 4 pages !
     
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  4. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    I have the 488 GTB version. Looks like the F8 is of similar design. Hook , pull and let go. The spring holds it in place only difference on the 488 GTB it hooks below the bumper which is good IMO because if the bumper were to scrap i can hear the number plate scratch first and stop :)

    So i would actually pick the other unit because we cant take of our number plates. It doesn't cover the bumper bar
     
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  5. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

    May 28, 2020
    2,594
    Southern California
    I have a lifter so not worried about scratching the front undercarriage and I am also considering skid plates to further care even less ( I say that but I would still probably cringe if I heard the skid plate scratching). I am spending a fortune and I have not driven this thing yet.
     
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  6. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
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    #30 Shadowfax, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    The Pista plate is easy enough to fit and remove but is not a set and forget type of arrangement and it needs to be or its a waste of time. I can't recall there being 4 pages to get it to work? The problem in having it stay on the car is clearly design related. Its like asking a cliffhanger to hold onto the side of a cliff with wind at his back and his fingernails as purchase and, no rope from above to support the downward body-weight.

    I dont care what anyone says about it being able to withstand speeds of 200 and 300kph as I can tell you its total BS. You really would not want to risk doing 200kph in a car of this value and having the whole contraption fall off and go under your car. I've even reset the plate from scratch and driven up a smooth freeway for 15 minutes getting up to 150kph and thinking OK I better pull over now and check if it is still on the car only to find it has slid down the slide with barely any clamping pressure anymore. What this means is the only thing that was holding it on was the wind force and as soon as I backed off and pulled over releasing the pressure of the wind it was all over for the clamp which had lost pressure due to minor shifting of the contact points on the slide. So in this sense maybe they can claim it will hold on at 200kph so long as you start the run afresh with a reset clamp and then drop the hammer until you hit 200 with the wind resistance against the plate holding it on - but dont back off for too long whatever you do and dont drive on any road that isnt racetrack billiard table smooth. And 300 kph? Well good luck with that I hope it all works out for whoever is brave enough to take that risk.

    What they have failed to realize is there are other things going on such as bumps and vibrations, varying wind pressures which occur along the way which seriously impact upon the remaining clamping pressure until such point there isn't any anymore because the contact points have slipped a few mm leaving the wind resistance as the main means of retaining the bracket onto the vehicle. It's really not good and no joke.

    I recall my first run with it and as soon as I stopped the car some passer by yelled out hey mate your car is falling to bits pointing at the front. So I get out and the whole thing bloody thing is sitting on the deck plate side down onto the bitumen. The perspex all scratched up too. I knew at that point this thing is a major problem and from that point on its been a constant source of worry.

    I really think this Pista plate holder should have been sold with a bold warning it could come off and to constantly check it every 15 to 30 minutes depending upon rd surface and speeds etc.
    If this contraption came off and went under the car at 200 there is going to be damage for sure so the last thing I would be claiming as a sales tool is that it can stay on at 200!! In fact I would be advising/marketing if you want to do over 140 pull over and take the damn thing off and if you are driving at normal speeds to still reset it every time you stop the car. Ok by now you can tell I'm pissed off. I think what annoys me the most is having to worry about a number plate fall off the car while you are driving or after you park and having to F around with the thing all the damn time. And coming back to the car seeing the thing on the deck is such a bad look too especially when outsiders are pointing and giggling. Its like if you don't check it and reset it each time after you've arrived at the destination you can pretty well take it to the bank that when you return the thing will be off on the deck. I cant believe I actually paid what I did for this level of pain. No way could I recommend another Ferrari owner buy one of these hence why I am posting this.
     
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  8. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    I still look in when time permits but as fate had it when I came across this thread my BS detection meter went past the redline and blew up. I think it was the 300kph claim that was the last straw that triggered me to chime in and help answer a fellow Pista owner who could have easily fallen into the same trap as I did! And to answer your question, I'm very well and If I can help, I will where I can, no matter who it is. If you don't see me around posting ensure to keep well and, keep driving.
     
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  9. padebus

    padebus Karting

    Mar 22, 2014
    55
    Good morning, just to make it clear, my statement regarding 300km/h was referring to the 458 plate holder. I am sorry for any misunderstanding.


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  10. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    #33 Shadowfax, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    Apology accepted and thanks for your honesty. From what I keep hearing around these parts the 458 is one very special car in every conceivable way imaginable known to mankind and, to even consider arguing against that is akin to inviting death induced by a savage brow beating! Please excuse my sarcasm :D. Actually, on a 458, I would say it will still stay on at 400.....on a steep downhill with a 200kph tailwind.....and using fairey overdrive. Sorry ....I couldn't help myself.....even though I did try to refrain. 458 owners will no doubt understand where I'm coming from.;)
     
  11. Carbonio

    Carbonio Formula 3
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    One of the points we failed to mention is that in both instances of the images of the Pista's at the track is that they were driven both TO and FROM the track on the days the images were shot. In both cases the owners live between 120-150 KM one way from the track. The roads there are a combination of highway and the last 25km is pretty bumpy and uneven rural road that has been a construction zone for some time. The track is Mosport which is one of the fastest road courses in the world (its awesome) where the owners did a full day of lapping. I cannot come up with a better testimonial that shows the Pista mount being driven in all sorts of road and track conditions in both wet and dry without fault. On any given lap 260-280kph is regular on the back straight and that singular day of driving would have been more than 500km (300 miles) of pretty extreme motoring.

    Again I re-iterate that the Pista mount is a proven product sold in dozens of OEM Ferrari Dealerships around the World that fit them to their cars and regularly re-order for their new arrivals :)
     
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  13. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    #35 Shadowfax, Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
    Well I can only account for my experience as a Pista owner and user of your product and so far it has been very disappointing.

    I also don't buy "everyone else" is having this wonderful trouble free "set and forget" experience with this bracket either and the problem is isolated to me. That just does not hold water regardless of how many pics and favorable claims made.

    As an FYI my number plate dimension is also much slimmer than what the plates in your pics show, which could only work more favorably for my bracket in the sense there is less weight upon my bracket for the vulnerable clamping forces to contend with - such as the various levels of shakes and vibrations which occur, and, having less wind resistance working against the fragile clamping force against the angled CF surface etc.

    It is logical that the clamp can only retain correct purchase for so long as there is nothing other than the wind holding it back against the car once the slightest movement shifts those 2 angled contact points down the slide. It's not rocket science - the design tells the story. It can be no other way. It is simply impossible for the lower clamp to retain proper clamping pressure against the two upper angles trying to gain purchase on a slippery dip sloped CF tongue. It's just not going to happen even if the car remains stationary. It is inevitable the 2 thin angles will get pulled down the CF slope by the pressure of the under mount, causing decreased and ultimate loss of clamping force.

    When the car is on the move, even the slightest of movement between the bracket and vehicle surface from vibration or, wind buffeting against the # plate will cause those two thin angled contact points to shift down the slide of the CF tongue and, the clamping pressure then continues to deteriorate as the bracket continues to moves further down the angled slide of the Carbon Fibre tongue - the bracket then relying primarily upon wind forces against the plate to hold it back from falling off the car.

    I'm sure you have brackets which work for other cars and models but this Pista bracket is not one of them.

    If you say you have now amended the bracket then that indicts the fact there was room for improvement to deal with the real issues I reported.

    Finally, I haven't seen the amended bracket which you now speak of so I cannot comment if it has improved the situation.

    After a few months passed I just took the lack of communication as you had given me lip service at the time to have the matter pass without further fuss being made online.

    I'm not sure what anyone else would make out of this if it happened to them, but the fact remains that after our PM discussions nothing ever materialized least of all did i ever receive any follow up to enquire the outcome let alone any enquiry to see if I had received the bracket.

    As the customer I don't see it as being my place to have to chase you up on (your) assurances given in your PMs. I just naturally expected you would follow through with what you said you would do, communicate accordingly and that would be the end of it until I was in a position to report back.

    At this stage in the game I have no other comment or experience to report other than what I've personally experienced with the version sold to me and tbh my experience has been not good at all especially given the significant price paid and all the grief which went with persevering the use of it.

    I also stand 100% by statements that this bracket is NOT a solid solution least of all a reliable solution for the car.

    I have taken steps to get it to stay on better, to no avail. I will say however that the double side tape held it in place far better than how it was without it, but even then it would still work its way off the car at a slower pace than without, and still required constant monitoring.

    As mentioned in my prior post, follow through is key to resolving and finalizing any customer situation - I did not receive any follow through from what you said you were going to do.

    If you indeed revised the bracket as you now say you have then surely it would have been appropriate to have advised me that you had the bracket made and on way? And, then made it your point to follow ME up with my findings once I had received and tested the revised bracket? This is how these things normally play out.

    It just doesn't make any sense why anyone would say they are going to revise the bracket and then send it without offering any notification or advice whatsoever least of all follow up and further question the outcome.

    Anyway....over to you.
     
  14. Jcmd

    Jcmd Formula Junior

    Feb 1, 2017
    269
    EMA
    you got to push it aside with a blunt tool( screwdriver) there is enough play to squeeze the bracket through
     
  15. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    I like to think positive but i have seen so many 488 GTB's with lifters and still scrapped underneath :(

    Skid plates good idea.

    For me on the 488 GTB i use my number plate to inform me :)
     
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  16. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran
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    Feb 24, 2007
    6,095
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    I have one for my 458, and my experience has been the same. It’s a brilliant piece.


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  17. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2016
    3,685
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    #39 Shadowfax, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
    It sounds like Carbonio has had success with certain models but the Pista bracket is a fail for reasons previously stated.

    Mine owes me about $900.00 and considering what it physically represents it would have a realistic spare part value ranging between $50 and $125.00 retail (tops) depending upon who was selling it. However, putting the financial aspect aside, essentially all goods sold must to be fit for the purpose intended and in this instance it can be proven that it is not.

    For Carbonio to suggest that because a car was driven 150 kms to the track, then on track all day, and then returned home without the plate falling off or requiring any form of regular resetting then they are not telling everyone here the full story unless the bracket was glued onto the CF tongue with contact cement.
     
  18. padebus

    padebus Karting

    Mar 22, 2014
    55
    A reaction of Carbonio, that they will replace the non working plate holder for the F8 with a working one would be very welcome. If they do not have one, a credit should be issued when defective unit is sent back. I myself ordered and got the plate holder for the F8 which will be delivered next month.


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  19. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    #41 Shadowfax, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
    Sadly the reaction from Carbonio on my particular issue is denial and offering justification such as pictures of cars with a number plate, and a story which doesn't hold water. I also noted they were quick to say the owner with the F8 issue hadn't told the full story but then they are not telling the full story on my issue either. This is not a great way to resolve product issues and not following through only further aggravates the situation with the client. Telling a client you are going to do something and then not do anything never ends well.

    I'm thinking I may be best to start a thread outlining my overall experience to date and detaching from this thread. I no longer care if they don't do anything. What I care more about is others getting sucked in. They need to start doing the right thing and put the appropriate product warnings in the marketing information so buyers are able to make an educated decision.
     
  20. Carbonio

    Carbonio Formula 3
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    #42 Carbonio, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
    Shadowfax I respect and understand that you’re not concerned about anyone else’s experience but are mainly focused with your own. This includes both the product performance and how you feel you were treated by our company.

    Just to re-cap. In May of 2020 we learned of your displeasure with our Pista mount through a post you made on F-chat in an unrelated thread. This was almost one year after your purchase before which we had never received an e-mail, PM, or phone call indicating that you were having a problem. As soon as we were aware of the problem, we immediately contacted you privately where you explained your issue. Recognizing that we could improve the design (particularly on cars with PPF on the carbon lip) we designed, tested, and put into manufacture an update within 1 month. In June 2020 we shipped a revised mount to your office Australia and heard nothing until a few days ago again on F-Chat.

    Generally speaking, when we send a customer updated or replacement parts, we do not follow up any further. We used to always follow up but found more and more customers feeling annoyed we called them and our emails were almost universally ignored. As such we answer inquires when asked but try to disturb people as little as possible.

    During our previously noted transitional shipping period we sent out over 150 international packages without a single one reported as not being delivered. Because there was no reason to expect that there was any delivery problem, because we were told that it may be a while before he could get to the office, and because our solution was proven on our end requiring no further input, we saw no reason to disturb this customer further and assumed they would contact us if there was a problem. Shadowfax was never ignored nor did we not act on his feedback. Every time we were made aware of his displeasure he was replied to quickly.

    That said it appears as though Shadowfax is still unsettled and we do wish to help him. As such we urge him to email us his best contact information to info@carbonio.com . Once we have this info, the owner of the company has resolved himself to take care of it personally by telephone & / or email. We will not post any further on this subject and extend our thanks to those customers who shared their positive experiences with our products.
     
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  21. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    #43 Shadowfax, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
    Thanks for your reply.

    You would have my details to send it if you still wish to resolve my issue and please PM or email me a copy of the con note to show you sent it. You could even send the last con note too to prove you actualy did send the last one. I could have easily been your biggest advocate if you had only followed through with what you said you would do and, the revised version managed to stay on the car without falling off or constantly having to re jig it. I don't wish to fight or argue with you - just annoyed you did not follow through with what you said you were going to do and now make excuses that there was no issue with that plate holder rather than resolve it.

    The plate holder is not the focal point of my life and as annoying as it has been to put up with it, like so many things it got put on the backburner mainly because over the past year I have only driven that car a handfull of times. It was one of those situations where each time i did drive the car I would be reminded of what a PIA that plate holder was and how you guys never followed through with what you said you were going to do.

    Fact is my problem with that plate holder would have been no different to anyone else who purchased that version and to suggest that I am the only one experiencing and issue is just further aggravating the situation.

    I explained back then why I didn't report the problem and i suspect the same applies to anyone else who bought one of these due to there being so many other priorities in life that take charge over minor first world gripes such as this. There is never enough time in the day usually.

    If the car was my DD I would have pushed hard on it but as it isn't and with other fun cars to drive and other cars I use as DD it was just easier for me to just use another means to stick the plate on the car in recent times as I was had enough of all the troubles with it. It was a joke make no mistake.

    If you wish I will have my wife email you and tell you how annoying it was for her to come back from lunch to see the damn thing sitting on the deck all the time and how embarrassing it was to have people pointing at the car falling to bits. She will also tell you how the cleaner would phone her up to advise the number plate was off the car again on the garage floor and, did she want him to pick it up and leave it in his office in case someone took off with it. Make no mistake, that plate holder was crap and I've explained clearly why. It's even buggered up the ppf from it constantly moving out of position on those surfaces as it lost grip. I don't need to be shown pictures of Pistas or told lovely stories that dealers have found it as some brilliant solution just because the wind could hold it on while the car was going - that is not being helpful under the circumstances.

    If this new plate holder really works I will personally review how great it is here on Fchat for you and whether you like to acknowledge it on not I still maintain follow through is everything in business....and is part of good business particularly when customers have problems.
     
  22. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 Veteran
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    Most here wouldn't understand our excellent consumer laws and " fit for the purpose intended " .. Lucky seller isn't here because this would be a 100% refund.
     
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  23. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    #45 Shadowfax, Mar 11, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2021
    Yup. And if it fell of the car damaging the car and/or caused consequential damage to another persons car then all those costs are borne by the supplier. Anyway I look forward to Carbonio resolving the issue so will back right off for now.

    Hopefully my next post is about how awesome this new revised version is and how great their follow through is. I don't wish to cause any harm - just prefer them to do what they say they are going to do and get on with it. I forgive and forget every easily when someone follows through and delivers. The importance of follow through should not be underestimated.
     
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  24. phanliu

    phanliu Formula Junior

    Aug 21, 2015
    445
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    Full Name:
    Noel
    This is the F8 owner that initially had an issue with the Carbonio plate mount for the F8.

    Would like to report that Rob from Carbonio came thru with his promise and I got my 812 holder in the mail last night which was intended as a replacement but they let me keep the F8 and on top send me the 812 holder for Free!

    I was expecting the same as Shadowfax’s outcome however Rob replied immediately and took it upon himself to resolve my issue and I received my holder within days.

    I truly hope Carbonio can settle the issue Shadowfax is experiencing with a positive outcome.

    Thanks again Rob!




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  25. Shadowfax

    Shadowfax F1 Rookie

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    #47 Shadowfax, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
    Just wanted to inform those following this thread that Carbonio owners extended exemplary efforts toward resolving my Pista plate holder issue and progress has since been made since my last post. But to keep it brief and honest for now, a revised plate holder was kindly sent a few weeks back which I found to be a significant step on from the original design.

    I am very pleased to report at this stage this new revised design by Carbonio has proven to be a very solid solution for the Pista. I understand Carbonio's position (and reluctance) to show photos of, or elaborate details online about their revised Pista plate holder design due to certain opportunistic dirt bags surfacing in their market seeking to capitalize from their hard work - in this industry sadly some things never change unfortunately. That said, I will endeavor to further report on my overall experience after further high speed testing the Pista on circuit using the plate holder, but suffice to say at this stage all does appear to be very solid in terms of the new holder being a viable and proper solution for the car.
     
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  26. GT2goneF

    GT2goneF F1 Rookie

    May 28, 2020
    2,594
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    Returning from the depths... Where have you been!!!???

    Thanks for update and for being fair and responsible. Very graceful of you.



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