CARBON FIBER/ Why so expensive?

You need to see how it's formed and baked. They need to make a mould and that is used to make the carbon shell. Custom work can be very pricy.

 

the raw material (carbon fiber fabric) is expensive to begin with, then you add the tooling costs--which is what really adds to the cost. currently CF component manufacturing can't be 'robotized', it requires manual labor in the process, that's why it's expensive.

 

I understand its expensive to make but I get custom CF race parts for > 4 thousand dollars. I dont know how to describle adding $40k in CF to the sticker price of a ferrari.

 

I watched a guy make a CF part for a race car---took all day to hand make the part...

 

Ferrari gets their CF parts from ATR, who in turn, gets their raw carbon fiber from Hexcel (90% sure)...so Ferrari has to charge a boat load to overcome the costs from their supplier ATR--who has to overcome their own costs. Business is great.

 

Is this in regards to factory options, or race/aftermarket carbon fiber components?
Aside from the high raw material costs, tooling is generally expensive, and many man hours often go into seemingly simple parts.

 

If you think CF is expensive, you should see the price of Kevlar.

 

Yeah, Kevlar is 1/2 the price.

 

I think what mike was referring to is the 'hybrid' carbon/kevlar which is nearly impossible to get now due to shortage and gov contracts.

 

Yes exactly, it's not so much of the material, it's the availability

 

i have a freind who does custom carbon fiber and he said the material isn't that expensive. low cost carbon fiber for cosmetic car purposes isn't that expensive.

 

yes and no... yes, it is generally less expensive if the part is for cosmetic purposes..usually, only one layer of 'generic' carbon fabric is used, layered by cheap 'filler' material such as polyester, fiberglass. there are many levels of quality for the carbon fiber fabric itself('standard' fabric all the way to top notch prepreg versions), and cheaper resins can be used in cosmetic apps. however, it also depends on the method which the component was made.. ie, vaccuum infusion vs RTM vs Autoclave cured. the latter being the best/most expensive--particularly for large parts, and parts where max strength is important. those various methods along with the quality of the molds--the tooling, also determine the overall 'quality' of the component. ie, surface bubbles, uniformity, etc.. all in all there are several factors that contribute to the cost of any CF component...

 

yes i agree, my friend does all those methods. he also has an autoclave. i was just talking about the material cost.

 

noted... and he has his own cooker? dang... i would love to have one...there wound be no need for me to buy aftermarket CF components then

 

As said before, most of the price consists of a) the tools and b) the labor required. Autoclaves are extremly expensive, and they aren't really tools for mass production - the baking process is time consuming, you can't just shovel out hundreds of parts in one day. (the semiconductor industry would be an example for the opposite situation - machinery is even more expensive there, but your output numbers per day are extremly high). The preparation process is even more expensive. The molds have to be absolutely perfect if you want a decent CF surface and structure. The body department of my racing team is just creating our monocoque, a team of six people has been sanding and polishing the molds for two weeks now! Laying out the CF mats themselves and arranging the pattern for the needed structural rigidity is another process that can't be done by machines and requires time, accuracy and experience, experience, experience. None of these factors makes it cheaper.

 

I generally agree - we make all the carbon fiber parts we sell to you guys here in our shop, in our autoclave. Producing the parts themselves is really expensive in terms of tooling, labor time, and overhead (for smaller parts the cost of the carbon fiber itself is not too significant), but finishing these things to the levels that our customers expect often triples the time required to complete a part.

 

You're welcome